What is The Community?

The Community is a criminal justice reform organization based in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, that works with advocates, impacted individuals, and crime survivors.

What does Shannon identify as the real fracture in America?

Shannon believes the real fracture is narrative—how stories are told and how quickly they calcify into ideology before people pause to think them through.

When does the 'A Perfectly Imperfect Union' series air?

The series airs every Tuesday, Thursday, and Saturday between May and October.

Shannon Ross: A Perfectly Imperfect Union - Reflecting on America 250 - Whole Again: Mindfulness and Resilience Through Kintsugi Wisdom

Q: Who is Shannon Ross?

Shannon Ross is the founder of The Community, a criminal justice reform organization based in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. He spent 17 years in prison from age 19 to 36.

The Whole Again Podcast: Mindfulness and Resilience through Kinstugi Wisdom airs every Monday, Wednesday and Friday with Pause Breathe Reflect Microdose Meditations, Growth Mindset and Mindfulness Tips, to help us transform our scars into healing and resilience.

And between May and October, I'm sharing a new series I'm calling: A Perfectly Imperfect Union. It's about connecting with every day folks as they reflect on America at 250. Conversations will air every Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday.

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What is something you wish almost everyone truly understood?

That's the question Shannon Ross asks in this episode of A Perfectly Imperfect Union: Reflecting on America 250.

Shannon is the founder of The Community, a criminal justice reform organization based in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, doing work with advocates, impacted individuals, and crime survivors alike.

Shannon spent 17 years in prison, from age 19 to 36. For Shannon, the real fracture in this country isn't politics. It's narrative. It's how we tell our stories, and how quickly we let those stories calcify into ideology before we've paused long enough to actually think them through.

He also shared something essential: we like to believe we live our lives off truth and facts, when really we live off stories. You don't realize you're living inside one until you tell yourself a different story and your life changes.

Here's Shannon's question for you and our next guest:

What is something you have heard in your time that you wish almost everyone you meet understood well?

Share your thoughts in the comments and share this episode with a fellow neighbor or friend.

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With Whole Again: Mindfulness and Resilience through Kintsugi Wisdom, listeners explore mindfulness and resilience through personal stories of trauma, scars, and injury while learning to overcome, imposter syndrome, self-doubt, and perfectionism with self-compassion, self-love, and self-worth. Through insightful discussions on building resilience, fitness, and stress management, as well as mindfulness practices and digital wellness, the show offers practical tools such as breathwork, micro-dose meditation, grounding techniques, visualization, and daily affirmations for anxiety relief and stress reduction. Inspired by the art of kintsugi, the podcast embodies healing as a transformative process, encouraging a shift in perspective from worry and overwhelm to gratitude and personal growth. By exploring the mind-body connection, micro-dosing strategies for emotional well-being, and

Hey there. It's Michael. Welcome to Whole Again, the show that's here in support of you creating a meaningful life and the person you're becoming. And I'm excited to share a new series with you that will air this summer as America turns 250 years old, which is still pretty young relative to many other countries across this big blue marble that we all share.

The series is called A Perfectly Imperfect Union. In 2022, I rode my bike across America from Astoria, Oregon, to the Lincoln Memorial. My wife drove our RV, and she had two co-pilots, Jester and Hope, two springer spaniels And when we did it, America was coming out of the pandemic and we were hurting.

Hurting from things that had happened prior to the pandemic, of course, going through what we all went through. And at that time, and this is something I still believe today, is that we were entering an inflection point. An inflection point for us to hopefully pause, breathe, and reflect on who we wish to become as individuals, as communities, and as a country.

As I pedaled across America, I wanted to share America's beauty with others, her natural beauty and the beauty of her people. And I also wanted to share where we were hurting As America turns 250, I believe Kintsugi, which is something we use as a metaphor here at Whole Again, is a perfect metaphor for where we are as a country.

There's so much beauty to celebrate, and we can also acknowledge that parts of us feel broken or are broken. But we can find a way to come back together, just like Kintsugi teaches us. And when we do, we don't try to erase or cover up where we have scars or blemishes. We highlight them in gold, and we celebrate them as symbols of our strength and resilience.

Kintsugi is called the golden repair, and in essence, we can see beauty in something that's perfectly imperfect. During this series, I plan to speak to at least two people in each state and the District of Columbia, so 102 conversations with real folk, as I like to say. We're gonna let the celebrities and the big influencers have their day somewhere else.

But here, I wanna reach out and talk to real people and listen to their reflections as they think about America turning 250 years old. And my hope is, is that you'll tune in to at least one, if not all 102, 'cause my theory going into this is that you'll hear different perspectives. Some may be aligned with yours, others may not.

But my hope is that you hear the goodness in your fellow citizens and realize, as Maya Angelou shared with us, "We are more alike, my friends, than we are unalike." We are more alike, my friends, than we are unalike. I've had the privilege of traveling all over the world and all over this country, and this belief is something that I hold deep inside of me.

So yes, I do believe that we are more alike, my friends, than we are unalike. So if you're ready to get to know one of your perfectly imperfect neighbors, just like all of us, take a healthy breath in and a slow releasing breath out and get to know Shannon Ross.

Shannon, my friend, thanks for joining me here on our little series called A Perfectly Imperfect Union. Uh, how the heck are you today? 

I am good. I'm good. I'm feeling a little rested. Uh, it's very warm here, so, uh, that always helps a lot with the demeanor and the, the spirit. 

Absolutely. Well, it's, i- as I sit here in New Jersey, it's pretty...

It will be pretty warm today. I've already been outside. Definitely very humid, quite sweaty, and I told myself as I was doing my morning bike ride, people pay thousands of dollars to get into a sauna And I, I have a sauna today for absolutely free, so I might as well enjoy it. So a little, uh, heat training, if you will.

So for those that don't know who you are, can you take a minute to introduce yourself? And also, what state are you currently living in? 

Yeah, absolutely. So, um, Shannon Ross, obviously, is my name, and I am in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Born and raised in Milwaukee. Uh, the work that I do is across the board, um, internationally actually, is criminal legal system change work.

Uh, what that basically means is working with the system, working with advocates, partner organizations, and supporting a lot of, um, people that are impacted by what I call a criminal collision, so people that go to prison, people that get convicted, and crime survivors. All of that work in collaboration to create a justice system more worthy of that name.

Um, I've discovered over time that that tagline can be interpreted two different ways. And so essentially, we're looking to have the system not as large as it is and not as many people locked up in the spirit of still achieving public safety. And you can achieve better public safety by removing some of those systems', uh, in overall impact.

So that's the, the broad scope of kind of what I do. Uh, if I give my exact, just one little thing that my title, um, I'm the founder of an organization called The Community. 

All right. Cool. Great work. A great ripple that you're putting into the world, so thanks for doing that. So for those that haven't been-- I've been asking everyone in the series to share a little bit about their state and what makes their state pretty cool, 'cause not everyone has traveled into each of the 50 states.

I know I haven't. There's still three states I haven't visited here in the country. So for those that haven't been to, uh, Wisconsin, and I guess this is a dated reference, but Milwaukee and, you know, uh, Wayne's World and all that stuff like that. So what's something that's really cool about Wisconsin or maybe your hometown at there of Milwaukee?

I have not heard that reference in over two decades. That's interesting. 

Yeah, I know. Probably 

it's not a, it's not a thing that's still used here, but- ... so I, I am not, and I've said this, um, one or two times when I've been a part of or asked, um, some element of that question to promote Milwaukee, that I'm not a I'm not a homer in that sense.

Like, I don't- Sure ... have this big like, "Oh, yeah, go our place over others." I think everyone is and everywhere is pretty much, you know, in the same boat. You just highlight the things you like and, you know, you deal with the things you don't like. And so in, in Milwaukee, there are some very cool things, and in the state of Wisconsin, there are some very cool things as well, um, with that caveat being said.

And so, uh, being by a lake is always one of the Great Lakes, not just a, you know, a, a nice small lake or whatever. It's a, you know, one of the largest lakes, um, in the world. The largest in the country, I believe, for sure. And I love that element, especially since I don't live that very f- that far away from it, 'cause water is really something that is very moving and important for me.

Mm-hmm. The symbolism of it, the, um, just visual of it, uh, the way, you know, it moves and what it can do. And so that is always something that I think a lot of people in Milwaukee are really, um, you know, get a lot from, is the power of the things that can happen and do happen out on the lake. Uh, but even outside of that is just a lot of, um, kind of the thing, things that are, are in existence here also, like again, they, they probably exist other way, other places.

But, uh, there's a lot of togetherness in terms of folks building things and creating co-ops, and there's a long history of social justice in our state. Really, really long history there that still has roots in a lot of the neighborhoods and a lot of the activities that go on of people coming together to address things.

Um, that is not me like expressing my so- my, my political views. What I'm just saying, the, the work that comes from that- Sure ... you can see that in, in a lot of things here. Um, and if I just comment once on the state, um, the state is really beautiful. I've recently been able to travel a bit more across the state.

Uh, not able, just doing it. I, I hadn't done it before. And just seeing a lot of the small towns and a lot of the countryside and a lot of the, um, you know, the, the urban beauty and rural, um, you know, marvelousness, uh, of our, of our state- Sure ... is really, uh, great as well. So those are areas that I think stand out.

I appreciate your, like, your feeling around being close to water. I grew up in Rochester, New York, right, like right on Lake Ontario. Yeah. And so water has always been a part of my life and close to the Finger Lakes in New York. And so I, e-even here, like we're really close to the Hudson River, so just the, the fluidity of water, the flow, um, I, um, yeah, I'm feeling, I'm feeling that vibe.

We, uh, we as a family, we, we almost moved to Milwaukee. Uh, so I spent, I've spent a lot of time in, in Wisconsin. The company, uh, one of the first companies I worked for was based, uh, up there. So I would, uh, I would travel to Milwaukee, um, uh, frequently. I... You know, and so one of my sports celebrity moments was I shared an elevator ride with Reggie Miller.

This goes, you know, talk about a dated reference. So, uh, I was in the elevator, he got in the elevator. He played for the Indiana Pacers at the time. They were in, playing the Milwaukee Bucks. And so I shared, uh, four floors of elevator space with him and, uh, didn't say a word. I didn't know what to say. I get sort of, you know, shy in those moments.

Uh, so, uh, but that's my big celebrity, uh, basketball moment right there- Right ... right there in Milwaukee. So, uh, um, so if you're, uh, hanging around with your friends, uh, in your community and th-this summer, uh, you know, this will be released after, I guess, officially America turns 250. But if your friends asked you what America means to you, how would you respond to that?

I recently wrote a piece for a local magazine talking about what democracy means to me specifically, and I haven't really said this part yet, but as a person who spent, uh, 17 years in prison from the age of 19 to 36 and the work that I do is on behalf of and deeply for those Who are, um, in that same boat with their, their background being they were in prison or they now are on supervision.

And so I currently, as it stands right now, would have little over nine years before I can even vote again. 

Mm. 

And so democracy is very different for me in that regard- Sure, yeah ... 

because 

I'm a participant and I'm a taxpayer and I'm involved in all the different ways in my neighborhood and with my community, but, um, I, I don't have a, a say so in, you know, a lot of things that happen.

And so that's not me, you know, pitching a woe is me story because I, you know, I, I went to prison for something that I, I justifiably should have gone to prison for. So it's just a balance between how are we reingrate- uh, reincorporating people that, you know, have fallen out of society for a time, um, and how are we creating a space in which we really want to understand why people find themself in that position and how we can successfully come back together, um, in a way instead of just like, "You go to your corner, you go to your corner," and like, you know, everybody figure it out.

And so I kinda preface with that because, um, the America is a couple things at heart. One is the democracy, one is the, um, capitalist ethos, and another one is this really, really strong, uh, ethic of freedom in the individual sense. And I think those are all things that resonate with me in different ways. I just touched on the democracy one.

I think the final one is the one that really means a lot and, um, don't like mean to get long-winded. This is a very complicated question. No. 

No, that's ... Yeah. No, go for it, man. Uh, share your answer. Yeah, I love it. 

I've also now been able to go to, um, eight different countries in the past two and a half years which, which again, being on paper is not a common thing.

So I've, I've been blessed in that regard for different reasons. And I was in South Korea like three weeks ago and there's been a lot of conversation right now with the World Cup with people that are here in America- Sure ... people, let's see people, you know, love, love America. And it's, uh, it's a nuanced element because we have so many things that really are beautiful and so many things that even with all the madness that's happening right now are something to really, uh, still like be very grateful for and to fight for and to, um, you know, not lose sight of because all these things that are going on can be complicated or messy or like make us not wanna, um, you know, live here or speak highly of America.

So all of that exists at the same time and in, in that way it's almost like a human, right? Like the, the- Sure ... humans contain multitudes, countries contain multitudes. But if I kinda look and step back from the details and the granular nature of the way I look at that question, um, for me I, I really do think that Being here and being in this country has created a, a space and an ability to be able to just do so many things that I would not have been able to in another country.

So America, for me, does genuinely mean opportunity. Um, and it means to be able to, hopefully, if one is effectively doing this, grapple with complexity and still move forward with those around you towards a greater goal and with hope. And so I think, um, that's kind of what my landing answer would be. 

Yeah.

I appreciate that. Uh, yesterday I flew back with my wife from Canada. We were up there the last three days, so we were up... Yesterday was Canada Day as we record this, so their 4th of July. And so it was, it was interesting 'cause a l- a lot of the Canadians that we were around, they were like, "Oh my God, you're f- you're from America.

You came up, you know, you came up here." We came up for a game. And when we landed, we, we land in Newark, and so the World Cup final will be in the Meadowlands. Um, and so as we drove home, we passed the, uh, American Dream Mall. It's a huge mall where, right near, right next to where the World Cup final will be played.

And so the stories are all the people coming in from all all around the world to see the World Cup are going to this mall and being like, "Oh my God, this is like so America." And so it gets to the commerce, uh, part of it. But still, to your point, people still want to come here because they, um, they see opportunity.

Yeah. And, and sometimes as other people in the series have s- have shared, when we travel outside this country, we, uh, our, our lens expands, our aperture expands, and so then we can see maybe, uh, what we have that we take for granted e- even though it's incredibly messy. So yeah, I, I really appreciate your response to that question, Stan.

That's pretty cool. Um, so one conversation that's, you know, in the public domain almost every day is AI. So when you look at AI, wh- where do you currently stand? I think this will be like a time capsule. I might listen to these episodes 25 years from now and play, play them back and see where, what we all, how we all felt about AI here in 2026, uh, when we get to 20, uh, 51, I guess.

So but right now, where do you, uh, where do you see AI? 

So I follow a lot of news around AI in a way that's not common for people in, in my space. The nonprofit space in general isn't the space where you'll find the greatest AI, um, you know, enthusiasts necessarily, specifically in the justice space, um, because there's a lot of concerns around surveillance and arou- a lot of concerns around, um, what the data centers are doing to neighborhoods and to the environment.

And so, um, it's a, it's a controversial topic I find at times in, in my niche field of, uh of the community and society that I exist in. Uh, but the side of it that I think is, um, fascinating is this confluence of two important things happening. One is the geopolitical element of it makes it so... And the, to be honest, the greed of the money that can be made and is being made off of it.

Those two make it so it's highly unlikely to actually stop, uh, in the way that ethically and, and long-term safety of, like, our human race should just to make sure things are correct. And these are things that AI enthusiasts say. Like, this isn't anything I'm just saying, like, brand new. But on the other side, there is this world of opportunity on creating time that people can get back to be human with each other more and to solve problems that have nagged us for a very long time, uh, a lot of them created by humans.

And it, it also has this ability to help... This is an area that I think a lot of people don't realize. Folks that have some kind of a disability or that have some kinda neurodiversity or some element that isn't as easy for them to assimilate into society and to be social, it creates a way for them to exist actually better than they ever have because there's this thing that can help them communicate or help them understand things, and it doesn't have impatience, it doesn't have, uh, a, a skill set needed with a four-year degree to kind of have this, uh, ability to do the, do the translation.

So look, this is an area of it for me that I try to focus on because if it's going to move forward, I want people that oftentimes don't use tech as much, folks that are impacted by the criminal legal system, marginalized communities, I want them to be represented and understood by the algorithm, for one, because it's going to speak and do things in their benefit of their, uh, you know, in, in, uh, to their detriment if it doesn't have the right information.

Uh, but two, I want us to be able to utilize it in a way so that we can also become more human. If I have more time in my day back because I've been able to do tasks that used to take me days or weeks, and now I can spend that time with people on my team or people in my life, um, that is only going to strengthen, you know, a lot of different things personally and interpersonally and, and like, um, within the, uh, ecosystem with human beings that I exist with.

And so that's an area where I see it as it's two things, just like America. It depends where we go with this. Yes. And, um, I'm trying to just make sure that we're not being left out, um, as much as possible in the ways that I can while this does move forward, while also being very honest and conscious of where we can push back and not just giving that up because it seems like it's going without us.

Yeah. I hear you on that. Also appreciate where, where you took it as far as maybe this allows us to free up some time To lean into what makes us human. So if we have more time just to simply listen, listen to connect and understand with each other and maybe, uh, tap into our muscle of empathy, we, we, we form a greater connection.

Uh, and so if, if, if it can allow us to do that, then yeah, we-- it, it could be a, an, a net positive. If it's just about doing more and more and more, and we just go faster and faster, then I think we lose sight of some of the humanness. We lose sight of this ability to like really connect and really tap into, yeah, what makes us, uh, human, human beings.

So, um, one, one thing I do with this series is I use the Japanese art form of Kintsugi as a metaphor for the messiness of this country, you know? And so we... The pottery might break, but we can, uh, repair it, and so we highlight the repair lines with gold, and it becomes our golden repair. So if you could like work on like one thing, uh, one thing that can bring us together to help us repair in our Kintsugi spirit, uh, what would you take on?

That's, that's easy for me to answer 'cause it's something that I've, I've, um... It's been a stick in my craw, and it's a big core part of the work that I do. Um, it would be around- Sure ... narrative. It would be around some element of either us as humans and our brains and the way we approach things being much more cautious of what we take in, um, in terms of information and stories, and/or, um, it would be something around the way that stories are even told.

So it's either the, in communication, either the receiver or the, uh, communicator, one of those two changing in a, or both, in a dynamic in which, um, it would, it would affect what I think is like the core issue that we're having and we've had for a long time as a species. I don't think people realize how much communication and misunderstandings are at the heart of massive wars and hatreds and racism and like all these things across the entire world.

And so, uh, like in South Korea, it was fascinating just to hear some of the stories of how they had gotten to where they are now and exist as a society and the things they believe and how it was based on stories told down throughout history. And that's everywhere. That's not just Korea. Um, we have our, we have our, our same things.

And that element by itself being shifted, adjusted, fixed, um, would It would settle so many things right now that are, um, actually the puppeteer of debates and disputes and, um, this violence and so many things in our country. 

Yeah. Uh, the, the, your experience in Korea, we, we as a family had a similar one in Morocco.

So my oldest daughter studied abroad there, so we went to go visit her, and we took, we took a trip out to the Sahara, uh, for like an overnight stay. We wanted to go out there, and it's a l- it was a long-ass drive. And so we had our driver, Amir, and all of us, uh, piled into his Toyota Fore- 4Runner, and you got about eight hours in the, in the Jeep.

And so my wife is Jewish, I grew up Catholic, he's Muslim, and so we got ... We somehow we ended up into, like, all the different origin stories, and he was like, "Oh. Oh, I didn't know that." Like, "That's..." Like- 

Yeah ... "

That's my story, but that's your story, too." Or like, I, you know, it was, it was so c- it was, it was so cool to be able to, like, road trip with him and just hear his story and his perspective on m- like, different world religions, and also for us to share our perspective and- 

Yeah

sometimes misinterpretation of his world religion. And so it was it was a really cool experience. But yeah, when you d- uh, as we mentioned already, when you do travel, you're like, "Oh, that's that... Oh, that's that story." I'm like- Yeah ... "That's not, that's not really the story." But we all... Hey, America is a story, and we all have different perspectives of it, right?

Yeah. No, totally. It, that, that's, yeah, it's... At root, I find over and over again, and I, and this is a thing I say when I speak a lot, is, uh, you know, we believe if somebody were to ask you how you live your life, you would say something like, "I live my life off of truth and facts and reality." 

Sure. 

And that's, that's just not what it is.

It... We all live our life off of stories. You just don't realize you're living a story until you tell yourself a different story and you change your life. 

Yep, absolutely. Absolutely. So with a birthday, w- the story usually is that we have cake. So we'll, we'll finish up with a couple different questions that are, um, fun in, in nature and design.

So this is a two-part question for you, Shannon. So if you're serving cake for America's birthday, what kind of cake are you serving? And as you blow out the 250 candles What's your greatest wish for the country? 

Um, I would maybe serve a... I- is it possible to pivot and not be a cake, but a different 

type of like- Yeah.

Well, yeah, believe me, I have learned through this series not everyone's a cake fan. So I had a, it probably, I, I came up with this question with the story like, well, everyone eats cake for their birthday. Yeah. And so I have learned there, there's a whole bunch of people who are like, "Yeah, I'm not doing cake."

And they're doing anything from pies to cobblers to, like Ken said, "Let's just grab a beer and just have a- Yeah ... 

have 

a chat." So you can, it can be anything you want. Cake, uh, cake is symbolic, if you will. 

Yeah. No, I definitely have a sweet tooth and I love cake. It's just, I, I think, uh, especially as of lately, it would be cheesecake, but I'm trying to get away from dairy for, uh- 

Okay

different reasons. And so, um, I, I would probably, I just, I love a really simple, fresh, warm chocolate chip cookie. So I, I would probably just do that. I think it's so basic, so amazing. Um, so I would, I would do that. I don't know how many cookies, I don't know how many candles I could fit in there. I don't think 250.

Um, but, um, yeah, so I mean, that would be where I would, uh, land at. I apologize. I think in the course of thinking about desserts, the, the second part of the question you had, what was the second part? Or was that it? 

Well, uh, when you blow out the candles of, of maybe you put one candle on that cookie, what, what's- Yes

what's your wish for the country? 

So, uh, I mean, my wish is a little bit tied to what I was speaking about the narrative. Um, I, I wish that we would Think s-slower and, um, have s- forgive quicker. Um, I think those two realms, they just keep us in this vortex where we are so, um, amenable to being manipulated by special interests and by- Sure

uh, the worst parts of our, of our, of our humanness, um, that get activated. And so, uh, things are really, really simple, I think. Um, and it comes down to where things go wrong and how we can get them back right, and where things are always right and we forget about it. And if we just take a little more time to think through things and not feel through things, and then s- get stuck and committed to a feeling that then becomes an ideology, uh, this could all be a lot easier.

And I don't... I, I think if, if the aliens were to come and try to take over the world, we would all work together, hopefully. I don't even know sometimes, but it- ... you look at the movies, everyone starts to work together then 'cause we all have a, a, a mutual enemy. 

Yeah. Yeah. 

Like, how can we just do that now, um, and get over it?

Yes, yeah. Wi- without, without a crisis. Yeah. Like we, we have, we have shown throughout time if there's a crisis, we can drop our labels and find a way to come together and get stuff done. And maybe through a, a different lens, uh, we're in a crisis right now as far as like, you know, not losing ourselves in all of this because we are just - we've become so reactionary- Yeah

with, uh, to everything. Like, everything's a reaction. Yeah. So last week I interviewed John from Utah. He has a question for you. His question is, are there attributes that you see in others that you would like to adopt for yourself or maybe society as a whole? It could be, you know, forgiving more, um, or, um, slowing down.

But are there attributes that you see in other people that you admire that you would like to, um, try to get better at yourself, or maybe for society to get better at those? 

The one that I have seen a lot in my time, and it's not necessarily one person. There's like different people I can think of that have this- Sure

really well. But, um, it's this ability to, um, really observe things and not React either even facially or, um, even, like, in the way you speak or respond to it. But just, like, settle yourself, see what's happening, and then, like, respond more versus react. Um, I always envy that because... And, um, and over time I've gotten a lot better at it.

Like, I, when I was younger, I used to definitely not be, I'd be much more reactive. Um, I think some of that just comes with age. You just, you just tend to, you know, uh, you've seen things more and, like, when you see- Sure ... a new thing that maybe created a larger reaction at one point in your life, you're like, "Eh, no, I know what this is.

This isn't what it doesn't..." But that eternal feature of experiencing and digesting the, the world, uh, to me is a real good strength because it just allows you to make better decisions, and it also, it creates a, a better relationship with others and it keeps other people calm at times. And so, um, I struggle with that at times because I, I get overwhelmed by the amount of things I'm doing.

And sometimes- 

Sure ... 

whereas I would've been just calm if I had two things going on, um, I can, like, facially or, uh, vocally kind of bit, get a bit, a bit exasperated, um, in a moment. And then I'll be fine, like, in 10 seconds, but it's like that ini- initial reaction sometimes can be like, "Oh, God." So I wish I had that a bit more in general a bit.

Yeah. No, that's cool. That's creating a little bit more space to be thoughtful with whatever you, you say and do next. I love it. Yeah, so that's cool. So what question do you have for the next person I talk to in this series? 

I would ask, what have you listened to lately? Or I'm not even gonna say lately. I hear that before, like, "What have you read lately?

What have you listened to?" What do you think that from your past that you've listened to or heard someone say that would be something you wish, um, almost everyone... I'm not a big a- absolutes person. I try to, like, create those caveats in there. Um, but almost everyone you meet understood well. Um, so I'd like to redo that so it's not so many, like, little breakups in the question.

What is something that you have heard in your time, in your life, that you wish almost everyone you meet understood well? 

Very cool. Well, I will definitely ask the next person I chat with in our series that very question and I'm, I'm eager to hear what he has to say. So Shannon, thanks for joining me on this series, and thanks for the ripple effect that you're putting into the world.

I so appreciate it, and it goes a long way in helping us become a perfectly imperfect union. So thanks for being here. I appreciate you. 

Thank you. 

Peace.

I just love Shannon's story. I really appreciate stories like Shannon's, where someone's gone through a troubling time, a bad moment, a bad day, a bad period, however you wanna look at it, and takes it and turns it into a ripple effect that changes lives in their local community and really across the nation.

I also really love his question: What's something you've heard, you've read, that you wish everyone truly understood well? What would that be for you? Let me know in the comments section. And I hope you'll join us again for the next episode of Whole Again, and of course, the rest of our Perfectly Imperfect series, which airs every Tuesday, Thursday, and Saturday.

And until then, let's remember to celebrate our scars as golden symbols of our strength and resilience. And don't forget to have fun storming the castle.

And if you wish to learn more about creating beautiful ripples and how to prevent a bad moment from turning into a bad day, please visit my website, michaelobrienshift.com, and sign up for my newsletter called The Ripple Effect. And join us each Monday, Wednesday, and Friday here at Whole Again, and discover how you can heal, grow, and become more resilient, and celebrate our scars as golden symbols of strength and resilience.

Until then, remember, you can always come back to your breath. You've got this, and

Shannon Ross: A Perfectly Imperfect Union - Reflecting on America 250

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