A Perfectly Imperfect Union: Reflecting on America 250 with Peter Schott

<p> Hey there, it's Michael. Welcome to Whole Again, the show that's here in support of you creating a meaningful life and the person you're becoming. And I'm excited to share a new series with you that will air this summer as America turns 250 years old, which is still pretty young relative to many other countries across this big blue marble that we all share.</p>
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<p>The series is called A Perfectly Imperfect Union. In 2022, I rode my bike across America from Astoria, Oregon to the Lincoln Memorial. My wife drove our RV and she had two co-pilots, Jester and Hope, two springer spaniels And when we did it, America was coming out of the pandemic and we were hurting.</p>
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<p>Hurting from things that had happened prior to the pandemic, of course, going through what we all went through. And at that time, and this is something I still believe today, is that we were entering an inflection point. An inflection point for us to hopefully pause, breathe, and reflect on who we wish to become as individuals, as communities, and as a country.</p>
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<p>As I pedaled across America, I wanted to share America's beauty with others, her natural beauty and the beauty of her people. And I also wanted to share where we were hurting As America turns 250, I believe Kintsugi, which is something we use as a metaphor here at Whole Again, is a perfect metaphor for where we are as a country.</p>
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<p>There's so much beauty to celebrate, and we can also acknowledge that parts of us feel broken or are broken, but we can find a way to come back together, just like Kintsugi teaches us. And when we do, we don't try to erase or cover up where we have scars or blemishes. We highlight them in gold, and we celebrate them as symbols of our strength and resilience.</p>
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<p>Kintsugi is called the golden repair, and in essence, we can see beauty in something that's perfectly imperfect. During this series, I plan to speak to at least two people in each state and the District of Columbia, so 102 conversations with real folk, as I like to say. We're gonna let the celebrities and the big influencers have their day somewhere else, but here I wanna reach out and talk to real people and listen to their reflections as they think about America turning 250 years old.</p>
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<p>And my hope is, is that you'll tune in to at least one, if not all 102, 'cause my theory going into this is that you'll hear different perspectives. Some may be aligned with yours, others may not. But my hope is that you hear the goodness in your fellow citizens and realize, as Maya Angelou shared with us, "We are more alike, my friends, than we are unalike."</p>
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<p>We are more alike, my friends, than we are unalike. I've had the privilege of traveling all over the world and all over this country, and this belief is something that I hold deep inside of me. So yes, I do believe that we are more alike, my friends, than we are unalike. So if you're ready to get to know one of your fellow neighbors who is perfectly imperfect like all of us, take a healthy breath in and a slow releasing breath out and get to know Peter Schuck.</p>
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<p>Peter, my friend, thank you so much for joining me here on A Perfectly Imperfect Union. How the heck are you today? </p>
<p></p>
<p>Well, thanks for having me. I'm doing great. It's a beautiful day here in North Dakota. </p>
<p></p>
<p>Awesome. I love it. I love it. So I wanna start off by thanking you for accepting a random outreach. So we didn't know each other before this moment, so you kindly accepted, "Hey, like, yeah, sounds like a good idea."</p>
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<p>So I've, I, I've had a chance to read up a little bit about you, but for those that don't know you, can you take a moment to introduce yourself? And you already mentioned you're coming to us from North Dakota. I love, um... One of the things I've been loving about the series is I get to ask people what's something that's really cool about their state, because we live in such a big country, not everyone's been to every state, and I have not been to North Dakota.</p>
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<p>That's one of the few states I haven't been to yet. So, uh, yeah. So if you could take a moment to introduce yourself and give us something cool about North Dakota that we might not know about. </p>
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<p>It is a lot of times the last state on people's 50 state list, so you're not, you're not alone in that. </p>
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<p>Okay. All right.</p>
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<p>Phew. </p>
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<p>It takes people by surprise. Uh, so who, who am I? That's, that's, that's, that's a big question. I'm, I'm a husband, I'm a father, I do enterprise sales in my job, I'm a Kintsugi artist, I'm an aspiring triathlete. I just did my first sprint, uh, triathlon. </p>
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<p>Oh, bravo. </p>
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<p>Uh, I'm a community builder. For nine years I ran an event called International Potluck where we gathered people around food and storytelling in, in the state here, and that was a lot of fun.</p>
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<p>Um, put that project to bed, uh, this last year and kinda doing some other community building stuff now. But I don't know, I'm someone that loves to just make connections with, with people and, um, just- Experience what I call the, the, the side quests in life where you run into people or stories or like things like this would be like a side quest where all of a sudden something comes up and you get to have this fun spark of connection.</p>
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<p>Yeah. That's so cool. I lo- I love it. So I know we'll get into it a little bit later in our conversation. Um, as you know, I use Kintsugi as a metaphor for this series and just overall for my podcast. So when I come across someone who knows about Kintsugi and who is a pra- practitioner of it, I'm always curious, like, how did you f- find Kintsugi?</p>
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<p>Yeah, that's, that's the whole journey. I, um... A number of years ago, I was drawn to the Enneagram- Oh ... which I don't know if you're familiar with the- Yep ... Enneagram or not. We could talk a lot about, about that. That's kind of a, a journey to being, to being... what it means to be human, right? And- Sure. Yeah ... and so just in my times of understanding that, uh, there was a book that I was reading about the Enneagram, and the author used Kintsugi as a metaphor for our, our, our spiritual journey and our healing journey, and talking about just that concept of the beauty of imperfections and the cracks being filled with gold, not to hide them, but to let those things stand out as a beautiful part of your story.</p>
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<p>And that really resonated with me. Um, there were a couple times I kinda went back to Enneagram and more, more focused during some life transitions with some job things once, then going through, uh, a divorce and some things a few years ago too. And in each of those times, that Kintsugi metaphor really became a really healing metaphor for me in my own life and my own journey, and I just couldn't stop thinking about it.</p>
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<p>And a few years ago, I was reading a book called "The Artist's Way," and in that, I was inspired to, um, explore Kintsugi a little more deeply, and I started taking a class online. And then to make a real long story short, I got connected with a Kintsugi artist in Japan through that who was pretty critical of the class that I was taking 'cause the materials and the methods weren't, weren't traditional, and encouraged me to take...</p>
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<p>He had a 12-day master class in Tokyo. And so I went there last year and spent 12 days in his studio learning the art from a traditional Master in Japan </p>
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<p>Wow, that is so... Oh, that's a g- great story. Thank you for sharing that one, Peter. I, I know we could, I could probably ask you more and more questions about this-</p>
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<p>particular thread of your life. Uh, but we'll get back to some of the other questions as it relates to the series. We'll, we'll do it offline in a </p>
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<p>separate- Happy to </p>
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<p>talk </p>
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<p>about that anytime. </p>
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<p>Yeah. Uh, we'll do a separate non-podcast conversation. Mm-hmm. So, so I, I love the, the whole project you did too around potlucks and community building.</p>
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<p>So I wanna bring you, like, maybe back to those, uh, days where every- everyone was around the table and someone would ask you, "Hey, what does America mean to you?" Or maybe it's, "Hey, what do you think, Peter, the American dream is?" Um, how would you answer that question today? </p>
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<p>Yeah. Well, before we get to that, I don't wanna lose sight, you asked me what's special about our state.</p>
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<p>Oh, yeah, that's right. I, I skipped- And- ... past that. I got too, I got too engrossed in the- ... kosugi story. I thank you for- Yeah ... keeping me honest and bringing us back to North Dakota. </p>
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<p>Yes Well, I wanted, I wanted to talk about it 'cause North Dakota gets overlooked a lot of times as it's, it's misunderstood through, you know, the Coen Brothers film, Fargo, which it's a great, great film.</p>
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<p>Yes. Yes. </p>
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<p>None of it's filmed in North Dakota. Um, the Fargo series is good, but it, it's not representative of- Of, of the state or the people, right? So it's, it's always fun to kinda give people a glimpse of like what's, what's really here. And there were a lot of things that I was thinking about with this, but the thing that I really settled on was...</p>
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<p>And I think it's good timing to talk about this because they just opened the Theodore Roosevelt Presidential Library here- </p>
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<p>Oh, okay. Cool ... </p>
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<p>in North Dakota. But North Dakota played a key role in, in his journey. You know, he moved to the Badlands in 1883, uh, just... Well, he just went there just to hunt bison, and he fell in love with the place.</p>
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<p>Five months later, his wife and his daughter died basically on the same, same... Or is, he has... What is it? His wife and his d- mother died on the same day. Uh, and his diary on the day is just a blank, a blank X, right? And so he was in New York, uh, promising political figure on the rise, uh, and he just went back to the Badlands, and he just went there just to, just to retreat.</p>
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<p>Spent two to three years there working as a rancher, doing all these things. And, um, that was really instrumental in his life and his, uh, pursuit of becoming the President of the United States and also the national parks and conservation efforts that, that came out of his time there. So North Dakota, his experience birthed his presidential time and also our national park system.</p>
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<p>And our national park system is absolutely stunning. Uh, it's one of those things I often recommend to people to get, get to as many- Yeah ... of them as possible, and if you can't get to a national park, get to a state park. </p>
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<p>Yeah. </p>
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<p>Like, basically just, like, get outside. It's </p>
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<p>such a treasure. We were in Yellowstone and the Tetons and, and- Oh, yeah</p>
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<p>Idaho this summer And it's just really hard to put to words when, when you're in an immense place like Yellowstone and think how this is untouched and undeveloped and all these places like that, that you can experience in a way that otherwise if it weren't, well, those lands weren't protected, we wouldn't be able to do that.</p>
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<p>Yeah, absolutely. No, that's so great. Yeah, as we talked about before we hit the record button, my screensaver on my phone, uh, is a picture of the Grand Tetons. It's- Yeah ... it was my favorite day of my bike ride across America, uh, four years ago. So, uh, l- l- love that spot and a special place in, in my heart. So, um, well, very cool.</p>
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<p>Awesome. Thanks for sharing that about North Dakota. Again, thanks for bringing us back. So then I'll bring us forward to that, what does America mean to you question. How would you, how would you respond to that? </p>
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<p>You know, one of my favorite things to listen to on this topic is there's a podcast called On Being with Krista Tippett.</p>
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<p>Oh, yeah. </p>
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<p>Yeah, Krista. </p>
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<p>Yeah, yeah. And Krista does some of the most amazing interviews with some of the most amazing people, and, um, they're all great, but the one that came to mind, and it would be really fun if we would both listen to this and kinda talk in detail about it, but he or she interviewed Vincent Harding about, uh, is America possible?</p>
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<p>And they had this whole, they had this whole conversation around, around that idea. Um, and a lot of things that he said in that, um... And I just took a couple quotes of it just 'cause they really just to anchor in on this. He's talking about how we are absolutely amateurs at this matter of building a democratic nation made up of many, many people of many kinds, from many connections and convictions and experiences.</p>
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<p>Um, and to know how, after all the pain we have caused each other, how to carry on a democratic conversation that, in a sense, invites us to hear each other's best arguments and best contributions so that we can figure out, how do we put these things together to create a more perfect union? So in this podcast, he talks a lot about this idea of the beloved community that's, uh, um, a spiritual concept from Martin Luther King and, and the church background that he came from.</p>
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<p>But how do we wrestle through that to create this beloved community? And it really resonated with me. </p>
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<p>Yeah. That's a great, um, gr- a great podcast to listen to. Yeah, Krista does bring in some, um, like, uh, deep, deep thinkers and philosophers, and there's a spiritual component to o- obviously her work. Um, and it, yeah, great, great quotes there too to sort of help us make sense of this great experiment that we're all, like, participating in.</p>
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<p>So- </p>
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<p>Yeah ... </p>
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<p>um, so when you think about, you know, obviously this year, um, over the-- Actually over the last several years, there's been a lot of conversation about how divided we are and, you know, with... brings up loneliness and separation and all the things that, you know, separate us. Are there moments where you feel really connected to your fellow neighbor, metaphorically speaking maybe?</p>
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<p>You know, even though you might have these different perspectives that we debate and argue and, uh, hopefully compromise on. So are, are there moments like that for you? And if, if so, can you sh- can you share one or two? </p>
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<p>Yeah. I think, um, when I think about the international potluck that I, that I did for a number of years, uh, that was a time where...</p>
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<p>And, and I started that before a lot of the political division was really mounting its head a few, you know, a number of years ago. And, um, really what I just wanted to do is just build community around food and storytelling. Then get people together around-- from all different walks of life because food is something that unites us where, you know, we all have to eat, but we can also celebrate our differences and our diversity because we eat different things for different reasons, and then there's really rich human stories in it.</p>
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<p>And so it was just really rewarding to see how, um, you know, every month you wonder like, "Well, are we gonna run out of ideas or things to talk about or things to do?" And like, you know, a few years ago we did, we did an event at, you know, for Ramadan at an indigenous center with a Christian gospel singer doing a performance- Oh, wow.</p>
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<p>Cool ... as part of it. And so we had- That's awesome ... this really rich conversation about, um, just different things and different faith traditions, and we had atheists, people from all different walks of spiritual life that were there and were able to have these common conversations around these core values that, that people, people have.</p>
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<p>They might look at them and express them differently. And so that's the one specific snapshot of it, and I think outside of that, when I can find times to be around people where it isn't about trying to convert someone to a different idea or your idea, but where people can really listen and just grow from each other's ideas into what's possible, that becomes exciting.</p>
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<p>That's really cool. So was there, was there a particular moment that sparked the desire to put these, uh, potluck dinners together? </p>
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<p>I'd, I'd moved back to the community But this is 11 years ago now. And I'd been gone for a couple years and then came back, and a friend of mine had done a talk, and he said, "Create the community that you want to be a part of."</p>
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<p>Oh, okay. Yeah. </p>
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<p>And it really got me thinking, well, what, what does that look like for me? And what kind of people do I wanna surround myself with? And I wanted to just be connected with people who had a love of food, who had a love of different cultures and storytelling and, and that type of thing. And so I had what I thought was gonna be a one-time event to, to do that, kind of half inspired by that moment in Ratatouille when he eats the food at the end-</p>
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<p>and he flashes back to his mom m- making it. </p>
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<p>Yes. </p>
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<p>And they're like, what if, what if we had people tell their story of what is that for them? </p>
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<p>Yeah. </p>
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<p>Right? And it spawned this, uh, nine-year run where we did these monthly events from anywhere from 50 to 250 people. </p>
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<p>Oh, that's so great. I love it. I love it. So i- in that, there's a lot of s- o- obviously storytelling, as you've mentioned.</p>
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<p>Mm-hmm. And, you know, as a country, it seems like every family has their own story with America or this land. You know, some families were here long before it was considered America. Some families were forced here through slavery. Others immigrated here. Uh, so do you know much about your family's story or connection with this land in America?</p>
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<p>I know more so about my dad's side than my mom's side. Um, my dad's side is there, there's a group of people called Germans from Russia. </p>
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<p>Okay. </p>
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<p>And they're ethnic Germans, and they were invited in the late 1700s to settle into parts of Russia with all these different, uh, promises to retain their culture and, and things.</p>
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<p>And that went really well for, uh, maybe about 100 years, and then they started getting conscript, conscripted into the army there. And so then people fled those conditions to come, uh, to the United States in the late 1800s, early 1900s, and, um, came into the Dakotas through, um... You know, there's some ugly parts to that, too, where the land was taken from the indigenous people.</p>
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<p>Uh-huh. And, and our family and others were were the beneficiaries of that. But, um, that, that's how our family came, came to the United States back in the late 1800s, early 1900s. </p>
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<p>All right. Uh, thanks for sharing that. So that's awesome. Um, good, good to hear, um, at least, uh, like some connection in terms of, uh, past generations.</p>
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<p>Uh, I come from a family that we, we don't, we, we never really shared those stories, so I'm always curious as to like what other people know about, um, their, their past. Um, and so we've-- a couple of us have dug a little deeper i- into our story, but, uh, still there's some missing puzzle pieces, so I appreciate you, you sharing a little bit of yours, Peter.</p>
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<p>So- </p>
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<p>Yeah, no problem ... </p>
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<p>uh, yeah, as we, uh, we'll, we'll circle back to Kintsugi, which I got all caught up in in the early part of our conversation. So if you, if you could, you know, using Kintsugi as a metaphor, the spirit of it, if you could do one thing, again, it may not be in a perfect way, but it would be a, a meaningful step forward to help us connect and heal and, you know, potentially downstream g- grow, uh, what would that, what, what would that be, uh, for, you know, for you, for, for our country?</p>
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<p>I think it would be to give people the space to Tell and listen to both sides or multiple sides of, of a story about this shared place that is called America. Um, and be able to do that without, uh, feeling threatened or that we have to exclude voices from, from, from the story. Um, I think of there's a, um, there's a place, uh, about 10 miles from where I grew up.</p>
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<p>It used to be called Whitestone Battlefield, but they've re- since renamed it Whitestone Hill. And they called it a battlefield because, um, the, the US Army went there and essentially slaughtered a number of, uh, indigenous women and children while the men were off- </p>
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<p>Mm ... </p>
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<p>on a hunt. And it was called a battle because a cer- the minimum number of soldiers died for it to be considered a battle.</p>
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<p>But this is a place that they had a... Well, they still do. They have a monument to the soldiers up on the top of this hill, and they had all these different things. Now, when I was a kid, we would go there and, you know, you'd have, like, church picnics and softball and all those kinda things. But the, the, the indigenous side of that story wasn't really told.</p>
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<p>And over the past, uh, 10 years, that, that has started to be told, and they've been putting, uh, different, different art and installations telling the story from the indigenous perspective in that, in that shared space and what that, what that means for everyone's history that is involved. And, and for me, if we could do more of that in America and have those conversations and really listen to each other, that would be a beautiful start for repair.</p>
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<p>Yeah. I think, um, I, I'm with you on that. Just being able to sit with each other and say, "Hey, I hear you. Uh, I see you. Um, I love you, one human to another. I, I appreciate your background and your lived experiences most likely are gonna be different than mine. And so y- and your, uh, that experience is just as valid as my experience, and so we don't have to, um, sit there and with defensiveness or immediately pushing back or excluding people.</p>
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<p>We can welcome all the different stories in. Uh, some are gonna be very joyous and happy, and others are gonna be, uh, quite horrific and hurtful and filled with grief and, uh, and sorrow. And but that's, that's how we, that's how we come together. That's how we, like, truly, like, see and, uh, empathize and show compassion to one another.</p>
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<p>So I, I love that. It's through that conversation, those stories that I think do, do help us see, um, that, you know, part of me is in part of you and vice versa. </p>
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<p>Mm-hmm. Well, I see, I see a lot of-- And this is across-- I've got friends across the political spectrum, and I see a lot where this gets framed as a culture war or a battle to protect your values or protect what's right.</p>
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<p>And- </p>
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<p>Sure ... </p>
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<p>there's a natural instinct to want to do that, but then you make other people the enemy, and you start battling each other versus kind of battling towards a-- battling together towards a, a, a truth and a healing that, that could happen if, if people were walking alongside each other versus trying to prove that they're right and the other side is wrong.</p>
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<p>Yeah. It's a, um... Pa-part, part of the way I see it is when the reptilian brain is in, in control, we sen-seem to, uh, demonstrate some of those behaviors to, uh, make us feel safe. But we have this beautiful prefrontal cortex where we can use some judgment and some reasoning and maybe, um- Take a different step forward.</p>
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<p>So yeah. But yeah, I imagine i- in, in The Dakotas, you know, you would have friends from all different political, uh, perspectives. And so yeah, so it's, uh, as, as we have in this country, in almost every state. You know, if you, if you get outside the cities, there tend to be really blue, you get into rural parts that are really red and, and...</p>
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<p>But there's still a way, I believe, that we can c- come together and see each other and, um, and find that way to heal. Uh, it, it's not gonna be perfect. We're, we're not gonna stop disagreeing. That's part of the, the messiness of democracy. Mm-hmm. But we can at least have some, um, civility while we do it. So, um...</p>
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<p>Yeah. Well, it's really easy to keep it insular. I mean, you can really surround yourself in pockets of people- </p>
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<p>Sure ... </p>
<p></p>
<p>no matter where you live. One time I was having lunch with a friend of mine who's a pretty prominent political figure here in the state, and we were sitting down having, having lunch. And another friend of mine, who's on the opposite end of the political spect- spectrum, was in that same restaurant having lunch with someone else.</p>
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<p>And then as we were leaving, he pulled me over and said, "What are you doing having lunch with so and so?" </p>
<p></p>
<p>Yeah. </p>
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<p>And I said, "Well, he's a friend of mine. He's a, he's a good human being." And I said, "Wouldn't, wouldn't you wanna have a connection with someone like that to work towards the common good on things that you care about?"</p>
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<p>And he didn't have much to say about that. And to his credit, after that, he spent a lot of time kinda reaching across the fence to make some connections with people, and I like to think that that conversation made an impression to help take a step- Yeah ... in that, in that direction. </p>
<p></p>
<p>Yeah. Sometimes it's the questions that we ask of ourselves and we ask of each other that we, we might not necessarily have like our preferred response right, right off the rip.</p>
<p></p>
<p>But if we spend some time noodling on it, maybe it does shift our perspective, and then with a perspective shift, shift our behavior towards, uh, something that can create a better tomorrow for all of us, not just, uh, some of us. So, so we'll round out here, Peter. Um, so I've been asking people, uh, the, the person that I've chatted with before you, if they have a question for you, and then in turn you get to ask a question of the next person I chat with in, in our series.</p>
<p></p>
<p>So the question that I have for you is, is there a place outside your home, uh, in America that makes you, uh, feel most alive or maybe really connected with, with this, uh, country, with this land? And if it's more than one place, you can share more than one. We love abundance, so we don't have to work through a lens of scare- scarcity.</p>
<p></p>
<p>So, um, I, I'm not gonna, uh, hold you just to one, but does, uh, does a place come to mind? </p>
<p></p>
<p>Yeah. Um, well, I mean, there's, there's a few. I, I lived overseas in the Dominican Republic for five years, and so anytime I can get down to Florida to like Miami or, or Tampa, in that area, there's just something about that, that Latin spirit and energy in those areas that just makes me feel alive.</p>
<p></p>
<p>And kind of what just popped in my head, and this is gonna sound like a really weird answer to this, but if I ever go to a Walmart- </p>
<p></p>
<p>Yeah ... </p>
<p></p>
<p>and, and walk around, there's something about, like, there's such a wide spectrum and variety of people that are there shopping and working and just kinda participating in that, in that commerce community there that-</p>
<p></p>
<p>I don't know what it is, but there's something about that that strikes me as like there's, there's such a, such a diversity there that I don't know. Like, to me it feels like this, this really kind of encapsulates like, um, the broad spectrum of people that are, are here in this country . And so it's, it's a weird thing to say, but like just walking around a Walmart and kinda seeing all the folks there, um, I, I walk out of that almost every time thinking just like, "Wow, look, look at all the, look at all the different kind of folks that- Yeah</p>
<p></p>
<p>live here and participate in our community." Maybe not the answer either of us was expecting, but that's, that's, that's my final answer. No, that... I, I, I- Walking around Walmart. </p>
<p></p>
<p>I love, I love that answer. And you mentioned the DR. My wife is actually traveling there tomorrow. Uh, she's been getting together with her college girlfriends for 25 years- Nice</p>
<p></p>
<p>uh, every, every year, and this is a big birthday year for, uh, most of them. So they're taking a few days and going down to the DR and, um, I think, uh, lying by the pool, laying by the pool and having fruity drinks and stuff like that. So I, I can't wait to, uh, for her to come back and report back on her experience.</p>
<p></p>
<p>I've never been there myself, so, um, I'm looking forward to living vicariously through her. So, and the Walmart, there is something, there is a g- again, a, a soft spot in my heart for the Grand Tetons, but also Walmart because as we went across the country, we could always park our RV in a Walmart parking lot- Mm-hmm</p>
<p></p>
<p>because they're so big. And we would go there to stock up on food for our RV. So we would, like you, we would walk the aisles and be like Uh, this really does represent all of America. And then if you look at all the cars in the parking lot- Yeah ... you would find cars that are completely beat up that probably should be sent to the scrap heap- Yep</p>
<p></p>
<p>to very nice l- uh, luxury cars and all cars- ... in between, and you can, you can tell a lot about, you know, the place that you're going into based on what kind of cars are parked in the parking lot. At least- Mm-hmm ... that's one theory I have. So I- I'm, I'm with you on the Walmart. I don't regularly shop there, but- </p>
<p></p>
<p>Yeah</p>
<p></p>
<p>there, there is something about the trip that brings some fondness when I think of Walmart today. </p>
<p></p>
<p>Yeah. There's a lot of layers to the conversation about that, that just... Yeah. </p>
<p></p>
<p>Yeah. </p>
<p></p>
<p>We won't necessarily dive into today, but I'm just saying anytime I do happen to go into one, that's, that's kind of what I see, and that's what I take away from it.</p>
<p></p>
<p>Excluding all the other... </p>
<p></p>
<p>Yeah. There's a... It, it's... Yeah. Well, like America, it's, it's, it is complicated. I remember- </p>
<p></p>
<p>Yeah ... </p>
<p></p>
<p>back when I was in college studying, you know, I was... When I was studying marketing, you know, back then Sears was the largest retailer in America, and there, we, there was just talk about this upstart company, you know, Sam Walmart, like S- Sam Walton rather, uh, coming up and growing, and they, they, they would soon one day, like surpass Sears.</p>
<p></p>
<p>And so obviously we know the history. We know that has happened. Uh, but there's, you know, there's... Yeah. There's, there's definitely a complicated part of their story, but then there's also what they've done for Arkansas and very specifically, like one of my interests is gravel cycling, and they've done r- They- there's interest that they have in that, and they've done a wonder with, uh, Arkansas State Parks and, and gravel trails and helping people get outside that's actually quite wonderful.</p>
<p></p>
<p>So, uh, like all of us, uh, and this country, we are complicated. There's no, like easy answer, and so we have to, you know, we have to go through a lot of discernment to like, you know, understand, like, where do we sit on something. So, um, very cool though that you brought that up. I </p>
<p></p>
<p>wasn't expecting to. It just kind of popped in.</p>
<p></p>
<p>Yeah. No, I think it's awesome. Hey, that's what's really great about this series is that I've been able to talk to so many amazing people who are not, quote-unquote, like famous. Um, but everyday people like doing the thing, trying to figure it out, and I just love their res- their, their s- their responses to things.</p>
<p></p>
<p>It's actually quite... It's, uh, one of the great byproducts of, of all this. So what question do you have for our next guest? </p>
<p></p>
<p>Yeah. So outside of the standard answer someone might give to this question about your family or your work or your hobbies, what's, what's something that really sparks joy for you? In your life.</p>
<p></p>
<p>Can't say your kids, you can't say your whatever. Just b- beyond those things, what, what's something that sparks joy for you? </p>
<p></p>
<p>All right. I will definitely ask that question of our next guest. And Peter, thank you so much for joining me. Thanks for putting a beautiful ripple into the world and helping us become a more perfectly imperfect union.</p>
<p></p>
<p>And a special thanks for connecting with a fellow fan of Kintsugi. So I totally appreciate you, and thanks for being on the show. </p>
<p></p>
<p>Likewise. Thanks for having me.</p>
<p></p>
<p>I don't know too many people who know about Kintsugi. I'm on a mission to educate the rest of America on what Kintsugi is and how it can be a metaphor, as you know. It's a metaphor for the series, but I think it's a metaphor for America and really all of our personal lives. So when I saw that Peter was a Kintsugi artist, I was like, "I have to reach out to him."</p>
<p></p>
<p>And we could have spoken for hours, so I just loved our conversation. And as someone who is all about choosing joy, I totally dig his question. So what about you? What sparks joy for you? Let me know in the comments section below. And as always, thanks for listening. Thank you for being here, and I hope you'll check out the rest of our series as we travel around America speaking to everyday folks trying to figure this out, but taking steps to do so, on their reflections as America turns 250.</p>
<p></p>
<p>And be sure to check out my episodes here on Whole Again to help you step into the person you're becoming and live a meaningful life. But until all that, don't forget to celebrate your scars as golden symbols of your strength and resilience, and don't forget to have fun storming the castle.</p>
<p></p>
<p>And if you wish to learn more about creating beautiful ripples and how to prevent a bad moment from turning into a bad day, please visit my website, michaelobrienshift.com, and sign up for my newsletter called The Ripple Effect. And join us each Monday, Wednesday, and Friday here at Whole Again, and discover how you can heal, grow, and become more resilient, and celebrate our scars as golden symbols of strength and resilience.</p>
<p></p>
<p>Until then, remember, you can always come back to your breath. You've got this, and we've got you.</p>