A Perfectly Imperfect Union: Reflecting on America 250 with Kristin Graham

The Whole Again Podcast: Mindfulness and Resilience through Kinstugi Wisdom airs every Monday, Wednesday and Friday with Pause Breathe Reflect Microdose Meditations, Growth Mindset and Mindfulness Tips, to help us transform our scars into healing and resilience.

And between May and October, I'm sharing a new series I'm calling: A Perfectly Imperfect Union. It's about connecting with every day folks as they reflect on America at 250. Conversations will air every Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday.

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What does it mean to be a land of reinvention?

Today we head to Washington and sit down with Kristen Graham. She brings to this conversation as America turns 250.

Kristen talks about America as a place where you can plant yourself somewhere new and start over, again and again. But she doesn't shy away from the cracks either. She points to the widening wealth gap, what she calls the K-shaped economy, where the top and bottom are pulling further apart every year.

If you've ever wondered whether reinvention and repair can happen at the same time, this conversation makes the case that they have to.

Kristen's question for you and our next guest is:

Which state would you live in if you were to leave the one you're in?

Share your thoughts in the comments and share this episode with someone you love.

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Hey there. It's Michael. Welcome to Whole Again, the show that's here in support of you creating a meaningful life and the person you're becoming. And I'm excited to share a new series with you that will air this summer as America turns 250 years old, which is still pretty young relative to many other countries across this big blue marble that we all share.

The series is called A Perfectly Imperfect Union. In 2022, I rode my bike across America from Astoria, Oregon to the Lincoln Memorial. My wife drove our RV and she had two co-pilots, Jester and Hope, two springer spaniels And when we did it, America was coming out of the pandemic and we were hurting.

Hurting from things that had happened prior to the pandemic, of course, going through what we all went through. And at that time, and this is something I still believe today, is that we were entering an inflection point. An inflection point for us to hopefully pause, breathe, and reflect on who we wish to become as individuals, as communities, and as a country.

As I pedaled across America, I wanted to share America's beauty with others, her natural beauty and the beauty of her people. And I also wanted to share where we were hurting As America turns 250, I believe Kintsugi, which is something we use as a metaphor here at Whole Again, is a perfect metaphor for where we are as a country.

There's so much beauty to celebrate, and we can also acknowledge that parts of us feel broken or are broken. But we can find a way to come back together, just like Kintsugi teaches us. And when we do, we don't try to erase or cover up where we have scars or blemishes. We highlight them in gold, and we celebrate them as symbols of our strength and resilience.

Kintsugi is called the golden repair, and in essence, we can see beauty in something that's perfectly imperfect. During this series, I plan to speak to at least two people in each state and the District of Columbia, so 102 conversations with real folk, as I like to say. We're gonna let the celebrities and the big influencers have their day somewhere else.

But here, I wanna reach out and talk to real people and listen to their reflections as they think about America turning 250 years old. And my hope is, is that you'll tune in to at least one, if not all 102, 'cause my theory going into this is that you'll hear different perspectives. Some may be aligned with yours, others may not.

But my hope is that you hear the goodness in your fellow citizens and realize, as Maya Angelou shared with us, "We are more alike, my friends, than we are unalike." We are more alike, my friends, than we are unalike. I've had the privilege of traveling all over the world and all over this country, and this belief is something that I hold deep inside of me.

So yes, I do believe that we are more alike, my friends, than we are unalike. So if you're ready to get to know one of your fellow neighbors who is perfectly imperfect like all of us, take a healthy breath in and a slow releasing breath out and get to know Kristin Graham

Ah, Kristen, my friend, thank you for joining me on A Perfectly Imperfect Union. How are you feeling today? 

I'm so good. It is a sunny, beautiful summer day, talking to an amazing human. 

I love it. Every time I get to see you on video, I love your background. I know people can't see it, but it's just filled with Post-It notes- It is

and I just, they're all colorful and there's stickers and- I- It just, it brings me joy. So I am, I'm so- 

Thank you ... 

I'm so grateful that we get to connect through technology in this way, although we've, we've actually m- met in real life- We've got to ... in New York. But just- 

We got to 

break 

bread ... 

we, yes. Yes, we did.

So for those that don't know you, can you take a moment to introduce who the heck are you and where are you calling in from? 

Absolutely. I love that. You sound like Frasier. Yes. Which is perfect because I am, I am Kristen Graham. I am a very happy entrepreneur and single mama of two, I guess they're adults now, I'll still call them my kids.

And I am in the Seattle, Washington area. 

All right. I love it. Frasier, that is such a good reference. That used 

to be like- Do you remember? Yeah ... 

that used to be the show. Like and that- Yeah ... the little Jack Russell he had was so damn adorable. Yes. And I didn't live 

in Seattle when it was on. Ah, 

okay. 

So moving here was, yeah, it was kinda like doo-doo-doo-doo doo-doo-doo-doo.

Yes. A little Cheers spinoff there. 

Indeed. So, 

so for those that don't know the state of Washington, because we live in a big country- 

Yes ... 

as the band Big Country from Scotland would sing- 

I love that song ... yes ... In a Big Country. 

In a Big Country, I don't think they were talking about America, I, I, but who knows.

I don't think they were talking about Scotland either because that's not that big of a country, but we digress. 

Also true. 

So what is something cool about Washington State that people might not know of? Eh, especially if they've never been there. 

Yes. And I, I love it here so much. I grew up in Arizona and then went to Chicago.

So for me, Seattle is nirvana. It's literally in between, another great band reference. Yes. And because you can, the best part of being in Washington State is you can get to the Pacific Ocean in two and a half hours, or you can go skiing in two and a half hours. 

Oh, wow. 

Right? And it also has over 144 national or state parks.

You can, you can get your green on. 

Yes. It's a very green, very green state. When Mount Rainier comes up- Beautiful ... and there are not so many clouds, so gorgeous. It's so gorgeous. The Emerald City- I have another fun 

fact for you. 

Okay, yeah. Fun fact time. Yes. Do tell. 

Because everybody talks about Seattle being so rainy And actually New York City is more rainy than Seattle 

I, uh, I have heard that fun fact.

And, you know, so it's just Seattle's just a little, like, overcast. I, I, I can appreciate the weather of Seattle because I grew up in Rochester, New York- Yes ... and it was always cloudy there. It is So- 

There, there is that. Although, the summer is perfection. No humidity. 

Yes. 

Mid-70s. I love 

it. Even the wind- the winters you don't really have to deal with snow either.

It's actually quite good. Yeah, a whole bunch of people are now selling their homes and moving to the state of Washington. But before they do, sometimes we have stereotypes about certain states and certain people who live in states. So does Washington State have any stereotypes that are far from the truth?

Well, I would say Seattle has a very specific stereotype. They call it the Seattle Freeze, meaning that it's ... People are polite but not very friendly. So- 

Oh, interesting 

And 

it's, it's- So is that true? Are, are you guys not friendly so deep 

down inside? No. I think that they are very friendly. I think the stereotype comes from it's hard to land here and make friends.

Everybody'll be very polite, but, like, finding deep friends. Hmm. And I think that there's, there, there's probably a little something to that. Um, but the, the one, I don't know if it is a stereotype, but I'd like to start it, um, is that they're incredibly polite drivers. Which if you come from a major metropolitan area like I did, you come to a four-way stop and it's like, "Somebody, somebody please go."

Yes. 

So. 

That, that's a very nice way of saying that they're really not good drivers. They're not a g- They're ... You know, I, I, I get the politeness, and my youngest lives in Ohio and sh- she d- she goes crazy because everyone's so polite. "No, no, you go. No, you go." And coming from New York it's like, "Just go already."

Just go. Just, just go. Make it happen. Get the things flowing. You can be polite and wave when someone allows you to merge into traffic, all that good stuff like that. So- But 

m- maybe it's the rest of us who aren't good drivers, and this is what good driving looks like. I don't know. 

Well, that is a perspective.

We can a- we might, we might agree on that. 

Perfectly imperfect. 

Perfectly imperfect as we are. So let's pretend that we're at a picnic this summer. 

Mm. 

You know, a beautiful summer day in the state of Washington. You're with your friends, family, and they ask you, "Hey Kristen, what does America mean to you?" How do you res- Hmm

respond to that question? 

Hmm. Um, probably a couple of ways. I think that it's a land of reinvention. You can really... And even from state to state, there's a lot of different- hats you can wear, so to speak. But that doesn't always mean it comes with roots, because I think that we are such a evolving, growing, changing country and an ecosystem.

We can change before anything cements almost, and that also leads to a lot of individualism, which is wonderful, and on any spectrum, we can be very self-oriented in some ways, but also you can go plant yourself in a different part of America and try something else. I certainly have. 

Yeah. Well, yeah, you definitely have.

Uh, when I hear your response, what comes up is that we're sort of like teenagers. We're trying to figure- We're trying to figure ourselves out, or maybe a 20-something. 

Yeah. 

They, they say about Portland, Oregon, which is right down- 

Mm-hmm ... 

what, I- I-5 from you, I think that's- 

Exactly ... 

yeah, I-5. 

Only a few hours. 

So i- it's where 20-somethings go to retire, so-

I'm not sure if that's true about Seattle or not, but y- you know, in your 20s you're trying to figure it out, and we're still a very young country, and we can reinvent ourselves, and we can get to our later years and still reinvent ourselves. So I lo- I love that notion of reinvention, sort of touches upon opportunity as well.

That's pretty cool. 

Yeah. Well, n- as the mother of two v- who are in their early 20s, I, I think that that kind of fits. It is, um, it can be myopic, but also huge potential, and I think that that is very much true of our country. 

Yes. You mentioned also roots, so many of us have a story, a family story about either being on this land well before it was known as- Yeah

America, or coming to this land, coming to this country. So do you know much about your family's origin story? To America? 

Yeah, I do because, you know, every family has that one, like, historian that- Yes ... or the one nerd who- Yes ... and that's my brother. Okay. And God, God love him for it, right? And he's, he gets all the old family...

scans them all in, does, like, Google face search, and he has done all of the DNA tracing, right, through the different websites. Back to the 1700s is apparently when our lineage came over on both sides. So before America was 'Merica. And we are primarily western, uh, Europe, uh, farmers, journeymen, and journeywomen.

So that was fun. But the funniest family story we have is my grand- my maternal grandmother's maiden name is Burr, B-U-R-R. 

Okay. 

She took it upon herself to let everybody know that we are of the Aaron Burr, right? And so it's just kinda passed down. But so when Hamilton became so popular, I was like, "I think we need to dig into this."

And first of all, hasn't been proven, might be some fake news from Grandma, but he doesn't have a lot of direct lineage. Um, it, although there's been some evidence of... But where, where there might be a connection isn't where we are. So I think that it was, um, early storytelling, which clearly runs in the family, as a, a storyteller myself.

But, um, I'm not sure if we wanna claim that anyway, so. 

Well, yeah, ab- um, yeah, definitely. Um- Yeah ... and I just love... But I think what you bring up is that, like, our f- families have stories that we pass on from generation to generation, and because we hear them so frequently at Thanksgiving or- 

Yes ... 

holidays or picnics or get-togethers, we just grow up believing, well, they're, they gotta be true.

Mm-hmm. And some of it is just, like, made up shit, you know? Just like- Totally ... it's just, like, 

totally- Or our own stereotypes. Uncle Rob, he's from- Totally ... the Irish part of us. What does that even mean? 

Yes, yes. Yeah, what do, as an Irish person, what does that mean? I, you don't have to answer, that's more rhetorical.

Yeah. But I love the fact that you brought forward just the whole idea of how some stories that are passed from generation to generation are totally made up- As we sat around the campfire toasting our s'mores back in the day, and we- Our something ... 

we 

just, yeah, we just, we just go along believing that they're true.

It's pretty cool. I love it. 

Well, I'll tell you a quick funny story, 'cause you mentioned Scotland earlier. Um, so I was over in Ireland and saying, "Oh yeah, you know our family, we're Irish," and and they took one look and they're like, "No, you're not." Plus, your last name's Graham. That is a traditional, um, Scots name, and I went and looked it up, and there's, like, an actual plaid on kilts, and it's, like, so like we were claiming one country, and we just needed to go the other direction.

So yes, pay att- double-click on your family stories next time. There might be 

some good- Absolutely, yeah, some- You know, truth or dare, family style. We'll find out the truth behind everybody's story. Yeah. So one conversation that's coming up, last- I would say a lot of storytelling is happening right now.

Yeah. We might not see it as storytelling, but with AI. Yeah. In fact, over lunch today, had a whole conversation with two leaders- Mm-hmm ... about AI. So part, one part of the story is AI is going to save us all. AI's gonna find cures to diseases that we- Mm ... don't have cures for. Another camp is AI is going to destroy humanity.

They're gonna eat us up. The robots will win. And then there's a group in the middle. So where are you as it relates to the AI story current day? 

I, I love it. I- Okay. All right ... I love AI. 

You're a fan. 

I... Very much. I think it goes back to what we were saying about reinvention. So I was coming through, call I'm Gen X, so as I was getting ready to come out of college is when the internet was taking off, and I, it was almost the exact same conversation.

So now as I have college-age, uh, kids who are saying, "This is gonna ruin everything," and it's like, you know, video didn't kill the radio star, baby, so- ... it's just, um, a new, a new way that we expand our innovation, which America's great for, but also the reinvention. I am glad that there is deeper access to, it still needs, it, it's early.

You wanna talk about teenage. In ter- terms of tech, it's more toddler. But, um, I think it takes away the privilege that has always been wrapped up with information- Mm ... a- as did the internet. And so traditionally in our country, right, everything was who got to go to schools, or economic education, or, or even medical care.

And now there's a, a lot more is accessible, and I hope that that only makes us better. 

I like your perspective. I, with all these music references, I just, what comes up for me is like, I want my MTV. I feel like, uh, Dire Straits is gonna be the sponsor of this, this one particular episode. 

Uh, y- well, I think that you could 

have a whole playlist A little sting in the background.

Yes, a whole playlist. A playlist 

category. 

Absolutely. I see it 

happening. 

Abso- I, I, we can, we can manifest it, so, uh- Ooh. You know we can ... I, but, but I, but I, I hear you on the whole, like, coming out of college, AOL was a thing, and then it was like- The dial-up ... what is this thing? And then the dial-up sound that we, like, people from that generation know- Absolutely

all too well And I think what scares folks about AI is just the f- the pace of it. Like- For sure ... some of these n- new technologies c- have come into the public domain over time. AI seems to be on a, a fast pass to, uh, wherever it happens to be going, and I think that makes people feel a bit unsettled when it, when we think about this.

I, I absolutely, yes, I think with any, um, innovation there has to be the test and learn component of it. Mm-hmm. With any... And we saw that with the Industrial Revolution and a lot of... But like the railroad system, I mean, that it, it's, it just opens up more. 

Yes. 

Um, and yes, it is ours to explore with our own caution, and but it's imagination.

Yep. Yep. And we'll get to see how we're gonna use this tool that's in front of us. So s- speaking of tools and knowing that, as we've talked about, we are a perfectly imperfect country. We have some blemishes. As a teenager, we have pimples and- ... all that acne and all that stuff like that. Now 

this is sponsored by Neutrogena.

Yeah, absolutely. I love it. Yeah. All the different sponsors come calling. Yes. Right? 

Thank you, 

everybody. So what is something that you would like to fix? Maybe not perfectly, but take a good meaningful first step that allows us to connect and, uh, form that more perfectly imperfect union. 

You know, so I've lived in Seattle, gosh, over 18 years now, and it's a very tech-oriented, uh, Seattle proper area, huge, big companies.

And I would say one of the components is the, the wealth gap. 

Mm. 

It is... So as I'm sitting here now in 2026, our gas is over $6 a gallon. 

Wow. 

And- It's that 

much in Seattle? 

Very much. Whoa. Whoa. And the median, um, home in our King County area is just under a million dollars. 

Whoa. 

And it's... W- when we look at, and, and then you extrapolate that across the US, the top 1% of the US holds over a third of all of the wealth in this country.

And I went and looked that up, and to be in the top 1%, you have to at least have 12 million. And so I think that our haves and our have-nots are just getting so much further apart, whereas the bottom, the, the bottom 50%, um, it's, they only control two, 3% of the wealth, and they make about $60,000 per household.

Mm. 

So living where I live with all of the, like, abundance... There was a great quote one time by Coco Chanel, and she said, "Everything and not enough." And that's something I feel like, um, and I've had the privilege of traveling internationally a lot and taking my kids international, and that's one thing I see with the US.

There's not a satisfaction when you get to whatever percent you are. There's just a deeper hunger for more. Look at, um, we just got our first trillionaire. Like, we, we... What, what are you doing with all those zeros, baby? Like- 

Yeah. Uh, sending rockets up to Mars, which, you know, meanwhile, back at home, um, there are a lot of different, a lot of different things that we could solve for and fix.

I... Yeah, l- other people have also referenced this K-shaped economy where the ultra-rich are just getting more ultra-rich because that's how- 

Yeah ... 

you know, that's how money works and compounding i- interest and all that, and the people who are on the other side of that K or the downward slope are struggling to make ends meet, to afford things, to send their kids off to college, to buy a home, uh, all of it.

I read something over the weekend. I guess Plato wrote back in his day that h- his overall formula sh- should be that the richest person in the area, in the state, should only make four times that of the person with the lowest income A four to one, which is a lot different- Yeah ... than the Ben & Jerry's. Ben & Jerry's had a seven to one ratio.

Yeah. Oh 

my gosh, yeah. And now the ratio is just insane. Oh. And- 

Yeah ... 

it's, it's, it, it creates two Americas, if you will. Uh, those that- Very much ... yeah. And it's- And I think, I see that as a big problem as well ... 

I spent a lot of time in corporate America, and I saw the pay disparity, um, d- down to the, the numbers of it.

And my challenge with it is that the math can never math. Even if we get to le- let's give it 1% or a 10 or 10%, y- you're so behind because of the compound nature of where the money goes and how fast. And my young 20-somethings, they could not, they cannot buy in this city that has so benefited me when I came in as an adult.

So what, what are we building it for? Because we can't even spend all those zeros. 

Yeah, that's a lot. So, like, so much money. I think there was also... This is a New York reference. Like, Jalen Brunson, the big star for the Knicks- 

Yep ... 

would have to play, based on his current salary with the Knicks, he would have to play 529 seasons-

in order to, to get the amount of wealth that, uh, Mr., Mr. Musk has current day. I think that number is right. But it's something, again, totally bananas, totally insane, and it's one of the, the fractures. It's one of the big... It's, it's one of those big, uh, zits that we have to pop. So, and I know I just grossed out a whole bunch of listeners, but stay with 

us.

Absolutely. Stay with us. The sponsors are dropping. Yes. What's happening? Yeah, I know. As, like, it's, it- We're gonna lose our zeros. But I do think part of it comes from being in this almost video game culture of, like, it just becomes points, points on a board- 

Yeah ... 

instead of the impact. And unless you've been on one of the, the stems of the K, the impact is just...

And again, I live in a l- a land of lots of corporate. Uh-huh. The amount of, um, Cybertrucks out here is, it's, uh, like it's- Yes ... it's unnecessary. Yes, yes. They're not putting anything in there but Costco. But it- ... it comes to that point about the person on the Knicks or I think if you had a billion dollars, I think the math said it would take you almost 3,000 years to spend it if you dropped 1,000 bucks a day.

Wow. 

And- 

That's crazy ... 

but it is. It's, it's just at some point, we can't... It's gluttony. 

Yes, yes. It's, it's the greed, and when, hey, when your yacht has a yacht, you know you're in trouble, right? So, um, so, uh, so let's switch topics. W- with America's birthday coming up, or actually Probably behind us because I think- 

Oh

our conversation will be- Ooh ... released after July 4th. Very exciting. So, but, uh, a- around July. Sure. Right? So- Yes, July-ish ... but during a birthday, during a birthday celebration, one generally has cake. So what kind of cake are you serving for America's birthday? And it's a two-part question, Kristin, so what are you wishing for as you blow out the candles?

So first- Ooh ... what kind of ca- if you're s- if you are serving cake, and you don't have to serve cake, but if you are, what kind of cake are you s- what kind of cake are you serving and what are you wishing for as you blow out the candles? 

Oh my goodness. Well, let's start with cake 'cause there's a very popular, um, I think it's chain called Nothing Bundt Cakes out here.

I mean, I love a good pun- Yes ... and a good little, a good little bundt cake. I mean, who's gonna be mad about that? And it, it also has a tie to me too 'cause my son was born 15 minutes before midnight, so he should've been a 4th of July baby. So- 

Oh, wow ... 

we've, we've had flags and all that stuff forever because of his birthday.

And, um, and I remember when I, when I had him in the hospital, and then the next day was the 4th, and at night, just with this little baby and, and watching the fireworks out my hospital window, I think I have the same wish I had then of like, um, let there be Harmony 

Hmm 

There's a lot of words we can put to that, but harmony is both self-directed, and there's also a, a big opportunity for us to find that again- Yeah

or to create it anew. 

Yeah. Yeah, maybe it's create, create it anew, uh- Yeah ... based on your reinvention theme. Yeah. Like, maybe we don't, we don't go back to how it used to be. We just, we create a, a different version of harmony that can work for us and to find, to create that in culture and environment so we can find a way to come together.

I like that. That's a good wish. I like that. And yeah. 

It goes to legacy, right? Leave it better than we found it. 

Mm-hmm. 

And that's, America definitely- 

Yeah. And I- ... has opportunities for ... I also think that's a good definition of leadership. As you come into a role in a corporate environment, or maybe it's a political environment, you try to leave the company or the country in better shape than when you started the role.

I think that's, I think that's a good mark of good leadership. So the, my last conversation was, was, was with Brian from Norwich, Vermont, on the eastern side of Vermont. Ooh, 

hello Vermont. 

So he had a question for you. What's your greatest adventure, and why, why is it so? Why is it the greatest one for you?

Oh my. That, that is, um, adventure can have a lot of components to it. 

It's wide open. It's a blank canvas. You can paint on it as you wish. 

You know, uh, s- part of what brought me to Washington, so I love this story, um, and I love the question, is I, I worked for Expedia, the travel holding company. So travel, in my first decade here, was such a big component to it.

And so I got to have a lot of great adventures, both with a passport and then across this country. And there's a, there's a wonderful quote, and I'm not gonna get it completely right, but it's by Mark Twain, that says, "Travel is fatal to prejudice," and a few other things. But there is this beauty of you travel the world to come back and appreciate what you already have.

And that, um, that for me has so been true. I've had a chance to take my children with me. But I think for me, when I came back from visiting Africa and was so in awe of the joy The pure joy. That's back to my Coco Chanel quote. When I came back here, and you can go to a Costco and come out and be like, "They didn't have what I wanted."

Um, that I think is the adventure of appreciating what we have. Yes, 

yes. 

I mean, our country has an opportunity for more of that. 

So true. Going to Costco and not having a tub full of Beefarino to come back home with- ... is such a travesty. It's like, it's such, you know, it's, it's, it's such a shame that that couldn't be the case, right?

So yeah, we- Yeah ... but w- but you bring, you bring up a really good point that some others have, have brought up in the series. When we travel Even outside of our own state, out of our own neighborhood, or especially outside of this country, you can't help, you can't help... And a cruise doesn't count. I just wanna put that on the record.

Oh, no cruise sponsors now. Uh-oh. 

No cruise sponsor, but a cr- cruise, a cruise is a bit of a bubble. But if you go out and you really do explore other countries, you, you do come away with an appreciation of how young we are- 

Yeah ... 

and how, how some civilizations have been around for so long, and there's so much wisdom in what they've been able to go through over the centuries.

And also an appreciation of, like, how much we have here- Yeah ... versus other parts of the world. And hopefully you can come back with a, a little bit more gratitude for what we have. And hopefully that influences how you show up going forward to make the world a little bit of a better place for all of us, not just some of us.

So I, I appreciate the- Yeah ... the nod to travel and adventure. Yeah. 

It was so, so beautifully said because, um, we are not special as a country. Um, but we are incredible f- incredibly fortunate by virtue of where we were born or immigrated. We have access... I mean, I've been able to go to the Middle East and Africa and India and, um, China.

And there's beauty everywhere you go, but there's not the same opportunity of individualism. I say that as a woman in the world, but I also say that as a human in the world, that we are, uh, we are given a lot. 

We are given a lot, indeed, indeed. So what question would you like to ask of the next person I chat with?

Ooh, I love that. So I, I do love states because I've moved around in the, the US, so I would say, which state would you live in if you were to leave the one that you're in? 

Ah, all right. Good question. I like that. 

Well- Do you have an answer, Mr. New York? 

I... Well, we're actually talking about this as a family, where we're gonna move to.

Yeah. 

It could... Because we're not gonna stay in New Jersey, I don't think. 

Yeah. 

Uh, 'cause the job way back when took us to, to New Jersey, so we don't have any family roots here. 

Yeah. 

And our girls live in two other states. So I would say maybe somewhere in between Ohio, where the one currently lives, and my oldest lives in Denver.

But I do love Portland, Oregon, where my wife is from. So it might, it might be out west. I've spent my whole life on the East Coast. It would be great to spend the last third of my life- ... uh, I hope, um- Yep ... it's a third of my life, uh, on the West Coast. So I, I think I, I would say Oregon, uh, because- 

Lovely ... 

I, I love the vibe, I love the green, I love the outdoors.

I love the fact that if you go to the Oregon coast, you have to wear a sweatshirt. I love that. It's 

so true, but it's so, so gorgeous. It's 

so true. And I love the fact that it's not so dang humid as it is here during the summertime. So, and I am tired of shoveling snow, and I'm too cheap, Kristen, to get s- to pay someone to shovel the snow for us.

I know. So that is my story- I've been there ... and I am sticking with it, and, uh- I've been 

there, mister. 

Yes. Yes. And, uh, I so appreciate you joining me on this series, and thank you for all that you do to help us become a more perfectly imperfect union and the ripple effect that you're putting into the world.

So I- 

Same ... 

so appreciate you, my friend. 

I love all your joy, and namaste. 

Namaste. Peace.

Kristen is my favorite word nerd, and she's in rare company as someone who has been on my podcast more than once. Only two other people have done so. And I love the fact that she brought up this K-shaped economy. Susan from Delaware also brought this up as something that we need to address in this country to help us come together and help everyone create a better tomorrow.

So I'm really glad Kristen brought this up. I also love her question about where would you live if you could live anywhere but not in your state. I've thought about this question. My initial reaction is somewhere in between my daughters, but I think if I'm gonna answer it today, it might be out in Oregon.

But my wife definitely has a lot of say in where we move to next. I was the one that brought us up from DC to New Jersey, so she gets to weigh in on this next move. I would love to hear your response to Kristen's question, as well as what resonated with you as she reflected on America now that it's turned 250.

I hope you'll check out the rest of the series as we march towards Election Day here in the States, and you'll also check out episodes of Whole Again and share one or two of them with someone you know. Until then, let's remember to celebrate our scars as golden symbols of our strength and resilience.

And don't forget to have fun storming the castle.

And if you wish to learn more about creating beautiful ripples and how to prevent a bad moment from turning into a bad day, please visit my website, michaelobrienshift.com, and sign up for my newsletter called The Ripple Effect. And join us each Monday, Wednesday, and Friday here at Whole Again, and discover how you can heal, grow, and become more resilient, and celebrate our scars as golden symbols of strength and resilience.

Until then, remember, you can always come back to your breath. You've got this, and we've got you