A Perfectly Imperfect Union: Reflecting on America 250 with Kimberly Coats

The Whole Again Podcast: Mindfulness and Resilience through Kinstugi Wisdom airs every Monday, Wednesday and Friday with Pause Breathe Reflect Microdose Meditations, Growth Mindset and Mindfulness Tips, to help us transform our scars into healing and resilience.

And between May and October, I'm sharing a new series I'm calling: A Perfectly Imperfect Union. It's about connecting with every day folks as they reflect on America at 250. Conversations will air every Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday.

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In this episode of A Perfectly Imperfect Union, I sat down with Wyomingian Kimberly Coats, who calls America a ragged, hopeful country, and she means that as a compliment. She's seen enough of the world to know that people still come here dreaming. But she's also honest about what's getting in the way right now: misinformation, confirmation bias, and our collective unwillingness to say "I was wrong."

She points to Liz Cheney, looking straight into the camera and owning a mistake, as the kind of moment America needs more of. And she shares the story of sitting in a Las Vegas hospital, surrounded by a Syrian cardiologist, a Filipino nurse, and an African American anesthesiologist, and feeling, in that room, exactly what makes this country great.

You can connect with Kimberly and her work with Africa Rising Cycling and her beautiful ranch, Boyer L Ranch.

Kimberly's question is specific to our next guest, Lloyd, and it's one for you as well: How did you experience what was happening in Minnesota earlier this year?

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Hey there, it's Michael. Welcome to Whole Again, the show that's here in support of you creating a meaningful life and the person you're becoming. And I'm excited to share a new series with you that will air this summer as America turns 250 years old, which is still pretty young relative to many other countries across this big blue marble that we all share.

The series is called A Perfectly Imperfect Union. In 2022, I rode my bike across America from Astoria, Oregon to the Lincoln Memorial. My wife drove our RV and she had two co-pilots, Jester and Hope, two springer spaniels And when we did it, America was coming out of the pandemic and we were hurting.

Hurting from things that had happened prior to the pandemic, of course, going through what we all went through. And at that time, and this is something I still believe today, is that we were entering an inflection point. An inflection point for us to hopefully pause, breathe, and reflect on who we wish to become as individuals, as communities, and as a country.

As I pedaled across America, I wanted to share America's beauty with others, her natural beauty and the beauty of her people. And I also wanted to share where we were hurting As America turns 250, I believe Kintsugi, which is something we use as a metaphor here at Whole Again, is a perfect metaphor for where we are as a country.

There's so much beauty to celebrate, and we can also acknowledge that parts of us feel broken or are broken. But we can find a way to come back together, just like Kintsugi teaches us. And when we do, we don't try to erase or cover up where we have scars or blemishes. We highlight them in gold, and we celebrate them as symbols of our strength and resilience.

Kintsugi is called the golden repair, and in essence, we can see beauty in something that's perfectly imperfect. During this series, I plan to speak to at least two people in each state and the District of Columbia, so 102 conversations with real folk, as I like to say. We're gonna let the celebrities and the big influencers have their day somewhere else.

But here, I wanna reach out and talk to real people and listen to their reflections as they think about America turning 250 years old. And my hope is, is that you'll tune in to at least one, if not all 102, 'cause my theory going into this is that you'll hear different perspectives. Some may be aligned with yours, others may not.

But my hope is that you hear the goodness in your fellow citizens and realize, as Maya Angelou shared with us, "We are more alike, my friends, than we are unalike." We are more alike, my friends, than we are unalike. I've had the privilege of traveling all over the world and all over this country, and this belief is something that I hold deep inside of me.

So yes, I do believe that we are more alike, my friends, than we are unalike. So if you're ready to meet one of your fellow neighbors who is also perfectly imperfect like all of us, take a healthy breath in and a slow releasing breath out, and get to know Kimberly Coates.

Kimberly, so good to see you today. I know we were talking a lot beforehand, so a lot's happening in your neck of the woods, so it brings, uh, like a mixture of different emotions. But I do wanna thank you for joining h- me here on this series, and just ask you, how are you doing? 

I'm doing great. Thanks. And I'm super happy to chat with you today.

Um, it's been kind of a emotional rollercoaster the last 24 hours, which we may get into. So if I cry, it's just, it's just me. It's been very emotional. 

No problem. We, we... You know, the, all the emotions and all the feelings, as I like to say as a meditation teacher, the trick is, like, uh, opening up to all of them and not necessarily trying to strive after all the good ones and, like, push away the ones that we sort of- Yeah

seem, uh, deem as unpleasant. We just try to open it up to all of it, and that's, I think, uh, the way to really live a meaningful life. So I'm, I'm right there with you. So we have started to get to know each other here again before we hit record. 

Mm-hmm. 

But I found you through LinkedIn, a random search. Uh, so for those that don't know you, can you take a moment just to introduce yourself, and then also, where are you calling in from?

So my name is Kimberly Coates. I'm the CEO of a nonprofit, Team Africa Rising. We have been working in African cycling development since 2007. Uh, my husband actually founded the organization. So we lived in Rwanda from 2000... Well, he was there in 2007. I, m- I ended up there in 2009. We lived there until 2017, when we handed the program back to the government and said good luck.

And, um We ended up here in Wyoming at my husband's family's ranch that has been in the family since 1905. So it's, it's been quite a journey. I'm, I'm a product of a lot of places. Born in Chicago, raised in Kansas City, lived in Vegas, Rwanda, Kenya, and now I find myself in Savory, Wyoming. And Savory, Wyoming is a population of, like, 27 it says on the sign.

Um- 

Wow. 

Yeah. And so it's, it's really small. We have a post office. That's it. Um, but we're part of the larger Little Snake River Valley, which includes Dixon and Baggs. So there's about 5 to 600 people in the valley, and when I say valley, it's, it's a huge valley. It's, like, 20 miles to Baggs. So, um, but I'm fortunate to live on a beautiful ranch that's has a river running through it, that has lots of acres and just sitting here talking to you I saw a deer run across my front field- Wow

'cause I have a big window in front of me. And yeah, and so Savory, Wyoming is about, as the crow flies, about three miles, um, north of the Colorado border. We're about 75 miles north of Steamboat Springs. 

Gotcha. Well, when I rode my bike across the country in 2022, Wyoming was one of those states that just, just really spoke to me.

Um, I, on my phone I have the Grand Tetons as my s- wallpaper, uh, 'cause that was, like, one of the best days as I went through Yellowstone and just, like, the, the whole state. A, a very windy state I might add. A very vast- ... wide open state, especially coming from the East Coast. Yep. You definitely get to appreciate, like, hey, folks, we live in a really big country, and we have some states that are really huge.

And so I, yeah, I have a f- a fond place in my heart for the state of Wyoming. So, uh- 

Yes ... 

I'm glad, I'm glad you're here. So- Well, thanks for having me ... let's pretend we're in the summer here. Mm. Uh, you're with your, as I would like to say, you're with your peloton, your, a group of friends and family- Mm-hmm ... and colleagues that have driven very far to get to your ranch, and you're having a nice big picnic, and someone comes to you and says, "Hey, what does America mean to you?"

Ooh. What do you, what do you say, Kimberly? 

You know, that's been an interesting question for me because at the age of 42, I quit my big job in Vegas and went to Rwanda kind of on a midlife crisis whim, I call it. And, um, my whole world was shaken because I had traveled abroad. I'd been to Europe, I'd been to South Africa, but I'd never, like, lived in another country.

And to live in a country like Rwanda that was still recovering from the 1994 genocide, it just brought up a lot of emotions. And so what America means to me has evolved and changed over the years. But I had-- I listened to this podcast the other day, and the speaker said that America was a ragged country.

And I go, "That's, that's how I feel." Like, there's so much great about America, um, our vastness, our can-do spirit, um, our innovative entrepreneurial sense, um, and our sense of hope. Like, Americans are For the most part, we seem to be and have been pretty optimistic that, that things are good. I think that's changed a little bit in the last decade, but I think we're still there.

And being with people from other countries, they still see America as the dream, that they can ob- obtain their, their dreams, their goals. It's the land of promise. Um, so I think that's... America to me is, is just this ragged, hopeful country. We have a lot of things that are really not good, you know, our, our healthcare, our gun control issues.

Like we have some serious issues, but we still have hope that we can fix it, that things can be better, and I think that's what draws people to America and, and just our really oddly weird openness about things. 

Yes. I, 

I think, like when I'm traveling abroad, I still spend a lot of time in Africa, mostly West Africa, in countries like Benin.

They're always shocked about like how loud Americans are, how vocal- Yes ... we are, how opinionated we are. And I've learned to dial that back a little bit. I've learned to listen more, because sometimes we, we do think we know best, and sometimes that is wrong and we don't. And so living abroad has taught me all the good things about America and all the things that we can make better.

Yeah. We are, we are loud people. We are loud people. I, in my travel too, people are like, "You guys are so loud." 

Loud. 

And I'm like, "Yeah, we really are." We, we really are, especially when we travel. It's like you can... If you travel really anywhere else in the world, you can spot the Americans like- Oh ... in a heartbeat.

You're like, "Oh, Americans," you know? And it doesn't have to be due to the clothes that we wear. It's just like- No ... our loudness and our presence and the space that we take up. 

Mm. 

It really is really telling. I had a, I have a good friend who is from New York, and he's always said like, "Listen, hey, this democracy thing- 

Mm

is messy." It's messy. Like we're messy. And hence the reason why we call this series, uh, Perfectly Imperfect, right? We are- Mm-hmm ... you know, it was through the, the adage that we've, I think all have heard, you know, to form a more perfect union. I'm like, ah, we're, we're perfectly imperfect people, and all these perfectly imperfect people- 

Yep

come together to form a perfectly imperfect union. So that is messy and ragged, right? And complex- Mm-hmm ... and not, not necessarily easy 

Yes, 100%. And, but it's kind of like hm, now that I'm listening to you say this, it's like the the person at a '80s rock concert that might have had a little too much to drink, and we're screaming, and we're like, "Ah."

Yeah, yeah. Sometimes it's 

America. 

Yeah, it's like a guy, they're, they're, uh, watching Mötley Crüe perform their greatest hits. Exactly. It's like, "Ah, you know, I think, uh, uh, not saying much, but I think some of... I think their better days have passed them by, and we can just- Yes ... we can probably just move on."

We're a bit of a hot mess. 

Yeah, at times we can be, yes. And we, we love the hot messiness of, uh, who we are. But I, I did wanna capture just the whole concept of hope. Like, we are, we are hopeful. And with hope, hope's different than optimism. With hope- Mm-hmm ... we do take action, and I think we, you know, we wanna take action.

And people come here, as you mentioned- Mm-hmm ... and they wanna take action to create a better life for their, their family. And, and I think that's one of the, our beautiful strengths, is that we have so many people coming- 

Mm-hmm ... 

from all different perspectives, all different places around the planet, uh, with all, with this desire to- 

Mm-hmm

make life a bit better. 100%. 

And, uh, 

yeah. 

I think that's, if there's anything that unnerves me currently, is the, the way that we are starting to close those opportunities to so many people, because we have to remember that American, America was founded by people not American. Um, and The diversity and the interesting people that come from all over the world to be here just makes us better.

I, I mean, for instance, I had a heart procedure done last year, and my cardiologist was from Syria. My EP doctor was Egyptian Brazilian. My nurse was Filipino, and my anesthesiologist was an African American man. And- 

Wow. That's 

so cool ... I just-- Like, I sat in this hospital in Vegas, and I was so-- I, I felt this, like, cocoon of care and love and, um, like I knew I was gonna be okay.

And I'm like, "This is what makes us so great-" Yes ... "is this." Yes. This diversity, these interesting people, these people who come here to learn their skill or to practice. Like, you know, I can only imagine the stories from my Syrian cardiologist. Like, who knows what his life was. So, you know, I think sometimes we just need to remember that what makes us great is that.

Absolutely. Absolutely. So one question I've been asking folks, because to your point, we are a country of immigrants- 

Mm-hmm ... 

that we usually have a family story about our connection to this land or our connection to how our family came here. 

Mm-hmm. 

Uh, do you know much about your family's story? 

I, so I do.

My family, speaking of hot mess, Um,

uh, my, my background on my dad's side is Polish, Polish Catholics, um, from Michigan. Um, my mom's side's German, very quiet, very reserved. Um, but what makes it super interesting for me is actually my husband's family, who owned this ranch since 1905. And the history in his family, I mean, I'm surrounded by his history, and we're...

Actually, his cousins are coming this weekend for a family reunion. And to be on land that has been around for generations, I mean, we're, we're the privileged ones that benefit from generational wealth. I could never own a ranch in Wyoming on, on a nonprofit salary in a million years. I come from a long line of poor people.

Um- So I, I feel it. Like, I feel the presence. And it was funny because I had sent an email to the group. I'm very... I, and I, this is why I wanted to do this podcast with you. Like, I'm, I love the summers here because we have this big old main house, and I'm very much about formality. Like, I think we've lost the importance of formality.

So like we home cook family-style meals, like from scratch. I don't do processed food. Um- We don't use paper plates, plastic cups, plastic spoons. Like, everything is the china that's been here since God only knows how long. I have so much. And, um, everything's cooked in this amazing array of cast iron pans.

And- Yeah, that, that's what I was thinking as you were sharing. Sorry to interrupt, but it's like I had this vision of your kitchen with a whole bunch of different cast iron pans- ... hanging all around. It's just like it's v- if 

it- That's exactly... I, I have a stove that my husband's grandmother traded six horses for and was brought here sometime in the 1950s.

It's this massive cast iron eight-burner stove with a griddle, and it's-- the oven doesn't work anymore, but the gr- the stove does, and we still use it. And so, you know, his, his grandmother was very formal. She came from some money. Um, she came from the Jackson area back in the '40s and '50s, and she was very much about, like, formality.

And I had said that to everyone. I said, "We're, we're going to sit with a-- like, no phones at the table." 

Yes. "

We, we're gonna eat with actual plates and and china-" Yes ... "and cutlery, and, like, experience that." Because I think that drives conversation when we take out all the distractions and we care for ourselves.

When we care for ourselves with good environments, good food, community, then we can have conversations, difficult conversations, because we start in a place of community and a place of love. 

Absolutely. Yeah. I love it. I love it. Yeah, there's There is something about being around the table without our digital devices- 

Mm-hmm

and appreciating the food in front of us. And I would s- I would say in a, in a way, s- there's conversation of course, but an approach to mindful eating. And from that point here, as you, as you shared, we can start to have conversation. And as we have more conversation, we build more trust. And as we build more trust, we can have more complex conversations, and even conversations that could be maybe somewhat challenging.

Mm-hmm. 

Uh, but we start with that, the foundation. Mm-hmm. And as, as opposed to right now, our foundation seems to be built by our smartphones and social- Yes ... media, which is a little bit of a shaky ground to stand on, so, um- 

Very. Very. 

So do you have a take, uh, nowadays, uh, we're, we're d- we just talked a little bit about d- like being real and being present, and like f- you know, put, maybe pushing to the side technology.

But do you have a take on AI? 'Cause obviously that's in the public domain, this debate on AI. Either- Yeah ... it's gonna liberate us- Destroy it ... and solve complex problems, or it will destroy humanity. And there's a whole bunch of people in the middle. Ugh. Where do you, where do you sit on AI currently? 

So I use AI, um, but, uh, I use it intentionally.

I'm very... Uh, like I don't do everything AI. I- I'm a writer. I love to write. I would never let AI write anything for me, something important, because I think what happens then is you lose your voice. Um, I, and I think- You lose 

your muscle. 

You do lose your muscle. You 

do. Like, it just like maps. 

For sure. For sure.

Google Maps, I think has- Has atrophied our ability to navigate 

It, 100%. And taking all of this into account, I think we need to realize what AI is and, and use it for w- what can be for good. Um, but here in Wyoming, interestingly, we are one of the states that they're putting AI s- data centers in, and there's- Mm

a lot of pushback, and rightly so. Wyoming doesn't have water. Water is always an issue. We had a horrible winter, and by horrible, I mean not that it snowed constantly, which I would generally say is a horrible winter because as somebody from Las Vegas, I'm not a huge- Yeah ... fan of winter. But this winter, I'm just like, "We're in trouble.

We're so in trouble." There was no snow. Um, we saw the ground all year. Uh, usually once it starts snowing in November, we don't see the ground until late April, and that didn't happen. Like February, March, we had temps in the 70s, and I'm like, "This is frightening." Yeah. And- 

Yes ... 

so water is really low. Like if you ask any rancher here right now, they're like, "We're worried.

We're really worried about the water." And AI 

data- Or about, and then, and the fire risk. 

Yes. Yes, and the 

fire risk. Yeah, which, which, uh, b- go hand in glove, right? Yes. So water issues, fire risk. 

Mm-hmm. And then you 

throw in- All gets wrapped around 

Yeah Yep. And then you throw in data centers that they're putting up.

Um, they put in some outside of Cheyenne. Uh, they're looking, 'cause they're looking at these small towns. These... And this is the challenge. I don't think AI companies are being forthwith about the risks and the realities of data centers. I think people are becoming more savvy. Um, there's, uh, there's debate right now in Evanston, which is on the far western edge of Wyoming, a small community on the Utah border, about a data center.

And I think people are waking up to ask the right questions. Like, you know, the, because I think it's been sold as something it's really not, that it's a huge job generator, and it generates construction jobs to build it, but after that, there's not a lot of jobs. It takes... Like, does it take more than it gives?

And I think people are finding out it takes way more than it gives. 

Absolutely, yeah. So 

I think that's my stance on AI is every time I go in and use AI, I think Oh my gosh, how much energy am I using? And, you know, we've seen our electric bills go up. We've seen, you know, and that seems to be another issue.

And yeah, it's, it's complex. You can't... It's not black and white, and you have to- No, it's not. No ... But I think it's important is that these communities are starting to get more and more engaged, and they're figuring it out. Like, "Huh, let's ask some questions before we just sell our soul." 

Absolutely. I, that, that's good, that's very good to hear.

Yeah. Um, because around here, it's so densely populated- 

Yeah ... 

and people are, like, connected in a different way than, say, rural America. Uh, there's, you know, there's not a lot of places to put these data centers, and so, you know, the, the big tech execs go into the rural parts of the country where there's not a lot of people.

Yeah. 

You know, you mentioned you had, what, 27, 29 people in your town or whatever. So there's not a lot of people to push back on it, right? Exactly. You know, you go into an area of the country that's more concentrated, then you have a huge number of people to push back. 

Mm-hmm. 

Yeah. 

So, 

so when you think about, when you think about, like, all of our messiness, all of our raggedness, and you could work to, um, repair or heal one aspect of it, maybe not perfectly, uh, but it may be in a meaningful first step, what would it be?

Wow. That is such a broad and deep- I know ... question. 

Yes. 

Um, you know, I think I think we've always had this really amazing ability to debate, to debate issues. Um, I loved... I never was on the debate team. I always wanted to be on the debate team, but I was, I was a high school jock. Like, I was in sports, and, but I always admired debaters, and I wanted to be like them.

But the challenge I see is that until we can come to a place, a foundation of basic truths, it's hard to debate because you're not debating ideology or principle or technicalities. You don't leave yourself open to other ideas. If you are mired in propaganda or misinformation, um, it, it's, it's really hard.

And I mean, for example, my parents, I mean, they've known I've worked in Africa since 2009, but they never ask me any questions really about it. And the other day, my dad said... He calls me, and he's like, "Are you near Nigeria?" Well, I said, "Benin is next to Nigeria, yeah." And he goes, "They're killing Christians in Nigeria."

And I go, "Okay. This sounds like a talking point somewhere that you got." 

Yes. 

And he said, "Are you okay?" And I go, "Dad, I'm fine. Benin is a young democracy. They just had peaceful elections." And I said, you know... He goes, "Are there Muslims in Benin?" "Yes, Dad, most of the north of Benin is Muslim." And he goes, "But they're killing Christians."

I said, "Dad, it's Boko Haram. They kill everybody. They kill indiscriminately. They don't care. They will kill young women. They will, they will kidnap them. They will, you know-" And that's the thing. He was coming from this place, and even though I am somebody who has lived it, he still questioned it. And I'm like, "Dad," I'm, I'm like literally, I felt like Sarah Palin going, "I can see Nigeria from my balcony."

Um, you know, is Nigeria dangerous? Yes, in parts. Yes, we take precautions. Yes, there's, there's strife everywhere. But to just boil it down to some talking point you heard on some news show is not the answer. Like, be open to asking questions, whether... I don't share much on social media. Unfortunately, I'm on social media 'cause of my business, but, um, you know, if I'm going to share something, number one, I read it.

I read all of it. If it's an article, I read it all. And then I take that article, and if I have questions about that article, I look for other articles from other sources and from independent sources. I'm, I'm, I'm not a huge fan of CNN, and I'm not a huge fan of Fox News. I, I need to find something that is proven, that is real, and then we start, and then we have conversations.

Because if you believe misinformation, if you're not willing to find out the truth, and sometimes it's hard. Of course it's hard. If, if I say something or do something, then I find out later I was incorrect, number one, I'm gonna fix it immediately. I'm gonna retract what I said. I'm going to be very open about the fact that I made a mistake, and I think we need to be able to do that.

Um, you know, the great Liz Cheney, um, our former representative from Wyoming, I disagreed with her on many, many things, but I gotta tell you one thing she did. She was interviewed by Leslie Stahl, and this was years ago. I think it was when she was up for re-election. Um, and sh- Leslie Stahl asked her about her background with her sister.

Her sister is gay and married to a woman, and, um, Liz had come out and said really horrible, hateful things about her sister, and reading them is ama- like shocking. Um, and Leslie Stahl asked her about it, and Liz said this. She looked straight in the camera and she said, "I was wrong. I was wrong I love my sister, I love her wife, I love my family, and I was wrong.

That's what we need to do. That's where we need to be. We need to be going to each other, "I was wrong, and this isn't the way it is." And you know, I, I think sometimes that we, we get so stuck. Like, like during COVID, people were saying, "Well, the, the scientists said this, and now they say this." And I'm like, "Because things change, because we learn more.

We're exposed to more." My sister's a doctor. I called her and I'm like, "What should I do?" And she's like, "You know, put on a mask. It's not gonna hurt you either way." Like she's like, "Just 

go with it." Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. You 

know? And so- But 

things were moving so quickly 

back then They were moving so quickly, and so people have- 

Yeah

taken that, that quick movement, the change of things as a negative, but it's not a negative. It's not that the scientists were wrong. The scientists just learned. They knew nothing about this virus, l- very little about this virus when it started, and as it progressed, they learned. Yeah, you don't a- need to sanitize your groceries, but wearing a mask could be helpful for a variety of things, especially if you are immunocompromised, you know?

So I think that's, that's You know, where we're at in America, like if I hope for anything, I hope for conversation, I hope for strategic debate, I hope for people to be open and honest that they could be wrong, and if they're wrong, to own it, and that's okay to be wrong. And, you know, but come to a place of truth.

If you hear something, go investigate it, and not investigate it in the same confirmation bias that you, th- that you are steeped in. You know, I look to other things. I, like I love the fact that Pete Buttigieg goes on Fox News because it gives a different perspective. So I think if we can do that, if we can just stop the noise, put down our phones, stop the noise, turn off the TVs, read, and read a variety of things, maybe we can start having these tough conversations with love and honesty and vulnerability and knowing that we could be wrong, and that's okay.

That's a good wish for the country as she turns 250. And also for, um, on a birthday, we generally like to have cake. 

Mm-hmm. 

So what kind of cake are you serving for America's 250th, Kimberly? 

Oh, you know, I'm not a big cake eater. Um- 

Okay. Are you a pie, are you a pie fan or just like no sweets or? 

No, 

you know- You know, wh- which no, no judgment is passed.

Like, you know, there's no, there's no shame in the non-cake-eating lover category. 

You know what I think is America? At least for me in Wyoming, is there, every summer this, this farmer comes up from Palisade, Palo- or Pali- Palisade, Colorado, and I don't know if you've ever had Palisade peaches The most astonishing fruit at its high height of ripeness that you will ever ingest.

It's kind of like mangoes in northern Benin during May. You can't find- Ah ... a better fruit. So these Palisade peaches come up, and then what we do is I take a flat of peaches, and I make a whole bunch of peach cobbler- Oh ... in my big cast iron pans. Oh, gosh, 

that sounds like, ugh. 

And- 

I think we can stop the series now with this, like, that just sounds, like, amazing.

Oh my gosh. 

Yes. So, 

um- And a little vanilla ice cream along the side. I think that, that could be fitting. 

Well, you know what's crazy is we can't do ice cream out here 'cause we are 60 miles from our closest ice cream.

So... Yeah. By the time you bought it, brought it home from the store, it'd be melted. 

It would be melted. So- Even with dry ice, it gets a little mm. Yeah. So we take fresh cream and whip it with a little vanilla and put the fresh cream on top of the Palisade peach cobbler. That, to me, is what I would serve America on its 250th birthday in my cast iron pan.

I like that. I like that. Like how you're thinking. Yeah. I'm also a big fan of mangoes. I was known as- Ah ... trauma patient mango- ... until my wife came to New Mexico to ID me. So, like, we have mangoes all through our house. So- Oh, nice ... I think I need to get some of those mangoes as well. I've j- Oh, my God ... we gotta, we gotta strike a deal, and I need to ask my oldest daughter, who lives in Colorado, to travel to Palisades, Colorado, to pick up some peaches.

We might be, we might be road tripping. All right. I'm telling 

you. 

So- Best in the world ... yeah, it sounds, it sounds pretty good. So we'll g- we'll, we'll round up, uh, round out our conversation on this. So I've been asking people, the person I talked to last, who, which happens to be Will from Knoxville, Tennessee- 

Ooh, interesting

what question he would have for you, and then in turn, you get to ask a question of the next person I chat with, and it can be about- Mm ... anything. And so Will's question is, what event in your life, uh, really shaped you as a person? Ag- again, a pretty big question. Um, and then you get, after that answer, you get to ask a question of, of the next person- 

Mm

I chat with. 

Hands down, that's an easy answer for me. It was moving to Rwanda when I was 42 years old. Wow. Just picking up and leaving. I had a big job in Vegas, big money, big perks. I had a life, and I was just I was lost, and I wanted to make impact in the world. Yeah. And I didn't think my impact was selling chicken nuggets to Caesars Casino.

So I, I was having this existential crisis. I really was. Sure. And I wrote in my journal three things. In June of 20- 2008, sorry, June of 2008, I wrote in my journal that I wanted to do three things. I'd always s- set goals, but it was like, "Make a million dollars by the time I'm 35." Um, it was very, like, me-focused.

Yeah. 

And I wrote down three things. I wanted to do something around my love of cycling, I wanted to travel, and I wanted to help people. And then I left it to the universe, and I s- less than six months later, it was probably three months later, I was reading this article in Outside Magazine about Rwanda and about this cycling team that has been developed.

And Jason Gay, who now writes for The Wall Street Journal, who I just love, he wrote the article, and I read the article, and I went Here's my fork in the road. It's, it's my fork in the road. And I was just like, "Oh my God, this is it." And I was riding with a friend, um, and I was telling him this. I go, "What do I do?"

And he goes, "Looks like you gotta go to Rwanda." And I go- ... "How do I do that?" And he goes, "I don't know, but you gotta go." And I love, like sometimes I have lots of male friends 'cause I think females, we, we tend to overanalyze everything, and men just cut to the chase. He's like, "Just go to Rwanda." And I'm like, "Okay."

And literally, I was on a plane six months later to Rwanda. I was only supposed to be there three months. I stayed eight years, and I had impact, and I did important things. And I, and I don't say that to brag about myself. I say that because it was... I got so much more out of the experience than even than I gave, and I, I just...

It was transformational. It changed the way I viewed the world. It made the world way more gray for me as opposed to black and white. I had very entrenched values about what I thought was right, and those were completely upended when I got into a, a situation where I was the minority and I was the foreigner, and I learned so much about myself, about other people.

So that was my event, and it has changed me. I am-- I turn 60 in two days, and I 

am- Oh, uh, happy early birthday ... 

I'm having peach clafoutis, by the way. And- 

Yeah, absolutely. That's awesome. 

But, but really that, that's-- I am a totally different person than I was at 42. 

God, that's so cool. Yeah. That's so cool. Well, I, I talk to Lloyd next from Minnesota.

Okay. 

He- What question do you have for Lloyd? 

Oh, Minnesota. Oh, um, Minnesota's such an amazing state. Um, I-- oh my gosh, there's so many things I wanna ask that I don't know if I can ask. I sort of- 

You can ask anything. It doesn't have to be about America 250. It doesn't have to be about the country. It can, much like Will's question- Mm-hmm

it's about life. It could be really about anything. 

You know, I watched the protests in Minnesota, and I think most of us around the US were galvanized by what was happening in Minnesota and I so admired the people of Minnesota for what they did and for how they cared for one another during one of the toughest times I think that they have faced in decades.

And I would just want to know from him how he felt. I mean, we felt like watching it as outsiders, my friends who live around the world, we talked about Minnesota almost every day. And we, we were so enamored with the strength and the community and the fight and the beauty of Minnesotans coming together, and I would just want to know from a, somebody who's actually from the state how they viewed it and how they felt.

Because I told my husband, I'm like, "Oh, if we ever leave Wyoming, I'd move to Minnesota. I got winters down." Because I was so, I was just so impressed by the beauty of the people. Even during the hardest, darkest days, instead of fighting each other, they all came together. And I'm sure there were many different views about immigration, about the way to handle borders, and everything else, but they came together to take care of their own.

At least that's what we saw from the outside. So I would just wanna know how he felt from the inside. 

All right. I will ask him that very question. Yeah, and you get to hear what he... how he responds, absolutely. Thanks for representing Wyoming, Kimberly. And, uh, it was so great to have this conversation with you, and I appreciate the ripple effect that you're putting into the world to help us, uh, become a more perfectly imperfect union.

So thanks for being here. 

Thank you.

I have to say, after Kimberly shared her love of peach cobbler, I sent a text message to my oldest daughter who lives out in Colorado, and I was like, "Hey, where's Palisades, Colorado?" And she's like, "That's a weird question, Dad. Why do you ask?" "Well, I just got done talking to an amazing human, and she brought up the Palisade peaches."

And my oldest said, "Oh my God, they're the best. They're at all the farmer's markets out there." So I gotta get some of that peach cobbler, I believe. I also love Kimberly's question that's very specific to Lloyd, and Lloyd will be our next conversation on our series. And as always, thanks for being here.

Thank you for listening and helping us create a more perfectly imperfect union. And I hope you'll tune in tomorrow for the next episode of Whole Again. Until then, let's remember to celebrate our scars as golden symbols of our strength and resilience, and don't forget to have fun storming the castle.

And if you wish to learn more about creating beautiful ripples and how to prevent a bad moment from turning into a bad day, please visit my website, michaelobrienshift.com, and sign up for my newsletter called The Ripple Effect. And join us each Monday, Wednesday, and Friday here at Whole Again, and discover how you can heal, grow, and become more resilient, and celebrate our scars as golden symbols of strength and resilience.

Until then, remember, you can always come back to your breath. You've got this, and we've got you