A Perfectly Imperfect Union: Reflecting on America 250 with Jerry Colonna

<p> Hey there. It's Michael. Welcome to Whole Again, the show that's here in support of you creating a meaningful life and the person you're becoming. And I'm excited to share a new series with you that will air this summer as America turns 250 years old, which is still pretty young relative to many other countries across this big blue marble that we all share.</p>
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<p>The series is called A Perfectly Imperfect Union. In 2022, I rode my bike across America from Astoria, Oregon, to the Lincoln Memorial. My wife drove our RV, and she had two co-pilots, Jester and Hope, two springer spaniels And when we did it, America was coming out of the pandemic and we were hurting.</p>
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<p>Hurting from things that had happened prior to the pandemic, of course, going through what we all went through. And at that time, and this is something I still believe today, is that we were entering an inflection point. An inflection point for us to hopefully pause, breathe, and reflect on who we wish to become as individuals, as communities, and as a country.</p>
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<p>As I pedaled across America, I wanted to share America's beauty with others, her natural beauty and the beauty of her people. And I also wanted to share where we were hurting As America turns 250, I believe Kintsugi, which is something we use as a metaphor here at Whole Again, is a perfect metaphor for where we are as a country.</p>
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<p>There's so much beauty to celebrate, and we can also acknowledge that parts of us feel broken or are broken. But we can find a way to come back together, just like Kintsugi teaches us. And when we do, we don't try to erase or cover up where we have scars or blemishes. We highlight them in gold, and we celebrate them as symbols of our strength and resilience.</p>
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<p>Kintsugi is called the golden repair, and in essence, we can see beauty in something that's perfectly imperfect. During this series, I plan to speak to at least two people in each state and the District of Columbia, so 102 conversations with real folk, as I like to say. We're gonna let the celebrities and the big influencers have their day somewhere else, but here I wanna reach out and talk to real people and listen to their reflections as they think about America turning 250 years old.</p>
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<p>And my hope is, is that you'll tune in to at least one, if not all 102, 'cause my theory going into this is that you'll hear different perspectives. Some may be aligned with yours, others may not. But my hope is that you hear the goodness in your fellow citizens and realize, as Maya Angelou shared with us, "We are more alike, my friends, than we are unalike."</p>
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<p>We are more alike, my friends, than we are unalike. I've had the privilege of traveling all over the world and all over this country, and this belief is something that I hold deep inside of me. So yes, I do believe that we are more alike, my friends, than we are unalike. So if you're ready to get to know one of your fellow neighbors who is perfectly imperfect like all of us, take a healthy breath in and a slow releasing breath out and get to know Jerry Colonna</p>
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<p>Uh, Jerry, my friend, great to see you again. Thanks for joining me here on this series I'm calling A Perfectly Imperfect Union. Uh, welcome back to the pod, I, I will say. How the heck are you doing? </p>
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<p>I'm doing great, Michael, and thank you for having me, and thank you for inviting me back, and, uh, thank you for doing this project.</p>
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<p>Yeah, you're welcome. I... When I first started it, I was thinking about voices I would like to have, um, on, on the series. By design, I, I, I didn't wanna reach out to influencers or politicians or media personalities. So if you consider yourself in one of those three categories, I've made a colossal mistake, but I- So based on our past conversations about reconnection and reunion- Mm</p>
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<p>I, I was like, "Ah, I'm gonna reach out to Jerry." And I'm glad we found a moment here during the summer to sit down and, uh, talk through things. So for those that don't know you, can you take a moment to introduce yourself, and what state are you calling in from? </p>
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<p>Well, I, uh, I'm calling in from Colorado, where I live, uh, just outside of Boulder on a 40-acre farm with my wife, a cat, and four horses.</p>
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<p>Um, which is odd since I'm a kid from Brooklyn. Um- Yeah. ... I find it very, very strange sometimes to be overwhelmed by the smell of hay. Um, uh, by way of introduction, I guess people would know me both as the author of two different books, Reboot: Leadership and the Art of Growing Up and Reunion: Leadership and the Longing to Belong.</p>
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<p>Um, I'm also... I've been an executive coach now for 25 years, and I am a former investor. Uh, so I kinda blend psychology, Buddhist thinking, business coaching into this whole mishmash of me. </p>
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<p>Very cool. Yeah. I, there's something... I grew up across from a farm. There is something about the smell of hay- </p>
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<p>Mm-hmm.</p>
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<p>Fresh cut </p>
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<p>hay ... fresh cut hay and horse manure- </p>
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<p>Yeah. ... </p>
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<p>that, that brings me, that brings me, or, or maybe cow manure, that brings me back to my childhood. There's something about that smell, probably through the noses of other people, they would li- they would p- probably think it's disgusting, but there's something very nostalgic- It's very sweet</p>
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<p>uh, very sweet- Yeah ... about, about that smell. </p>
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<p>Yeah. </p>
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<p>So we live in a big country, and not everyone's been to every one of the 50 states, nor the District of Columbia. For those that have not been to Colorado, but maybe know it as the Rocky Mountain State, uh, little John Denver, uh, you know, skiing and all that jazz, what's something that's really cool about the state that people might not know about if they've never been?</p>
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<p>Well, I, I can't answer that question without first not answering the question by acknowledging the beauty of the state. Um- </p>
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<p>Yes ... </p>
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<p>it's extraordinary, and that's, that's part of what made me fall in love and move here now 16 years ago. Um, I think the thing that occurs to me is, um, despite the homogeneity of some of the big cities, um, there is a, a- an extraordinary diversity of political thought, um, uh, emotional experience, um, and, uh, really long time what are referred to locally as pioneers and, uh, newcomers like me.</p>
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<p>I, I don't think I'll ever be considered a pioneer, ever. Um, and then the, the history of the state is fascinating in that it was carved out of territories that, uh, were technically Kansas and Nebraska, and it was all part of balancing through the Missouri Compromise. And, um, and I think in many ways the state continues to play a role as like this pivot point, if you will.</p>
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<p>It's more than just a swing state, and it's more than just purple. It's, it's a pivot point. I mean, our soon-to-be-retired governor, Jared Polis, is not only, uh, the first, um, one of the first Jewish governors in the state, I think the only Jewish governor in the state's history, but perhaps the first, soon to be second perhaps, but he's the first openly gay, uh, man.</p>
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<p>Uh, and, um, you know, it's, it's still the West W- with a lot of farmers and a lot of people who are sort of like, "Don't tread on me." But it's also an incredibly, um, uh, economically diverse state. Um, so anyway, it's, uh, I, I love living in Colorado. </p>
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<p>Yeah. My oldest moved out there a couple years ago, actually r- right after we first chatted on the podcast, from Manhattan, and there's something for, for her that's really grounding about looking out her bedroom window and seeing, uh, the Rocky Mountains.</p>
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<p>Uh, it- I see </p>
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<p>them right there. </p>
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<p>Yeah. Right there. It does something to your central nervous system, uh, that is quite different than New York City. </p>
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<p>Yeah. Let me tell you a quick story about that. Yeah. During the pandemic, um, when we were all sort of in lockdown, and I had kids locked in New York and I was here, that was hard.</p>
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<p>I did a lot of Zoom calls in support of people, and I remember at one point I was talking to a group of entrepreneurs, about 150 people, all from places as diverse as Bangalore to, to Dubai, all on the same call. And I remember looking out, and out of my window I can see Longs Peak, which is one of the Rockies.</p>
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<p>Yeah. And I remember saying, uh, "The mountains don't give a damn. The mountains don't care." The mountains do something very s- particular, which I think is happening for your daughter, which is you all can fight amongst yourselves. You all can be in a state of disunion. You all can be literally killing each other And the mountains don't care And there's something for me deeply grounding about that because what matters to the earth ultimately is what matters to us.</p>
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<p>Oh, yeah, sure, 'cause it's nature, we are nature. </p>
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<p>Exactly. </p>
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<p>And there's a great meditation. The script changes from meditation teacher to meditation. I have my own script that I, uh, I guide people through. Uh, it's a mountain meditation, and it's just- Mm-hmm ... you know, it's, it's trying to embody the mountain and, uh, the groundedness, the strength, and how it can weather all types of weather, and still it stands strong.</p>
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<p>And, uh, and so, uh, and, and, and may we all be able to do that, so. </p>
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<p>Amen. </p>
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<p>Um, so as you're gathered around, whether it's out east here or out in Colorado, maybe amongst the horses and the hay and all that jazz, and someone would ask you, "Hey, Jerry, what does America mean to you?" How do you respond? </p>
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<p>It's a complex question, but, um, I cannot think of answering that question without thinking of im- my immigrant ancestors, uh, both from the Irish side and the Italian side, who came to the United States pre-1923, pre the most recent immigration laws.</p>
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<p>Sure. </p>
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<p>When, uh, people might say, "Well, they came here legally," or, "They came here illegally." They came here because, um... Well, they came because of poverty, but they came, uh, when coming was just a different experience, and unless you were Chinese. So when I think of it, I think of the fact of, say, um, my grandfather, who came to the United States at 16 years old and then registered for the draft even though he wasn't a citizen.</p>
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<p>Yeah. </p>
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<p>This was for World War I. He didn't serve. Or the fact that he had, um, four sons... I'm sorry, three sons and four daughters, and all four of his sons served in World War II. Wow. Um, including my uncle who, uh, was a medic and, uh, uh, did not want to carry a gun, and so he would actually do the even more dangerous thing of actually dragging soldiers.</p>
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<p>I mean, to... You know, or my father, who was, uh, served by being a reporter at the Stars and Stripes and was a witness to the Nuremberg trials. I mean, um, to me, that is, uh, that is what America is really about. It's about Uh, a process of transformation, a process, a constant process of, uh, unification even despite the polarization that we live in.</p>
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<p>So true. And probably every one of those stories to one degree or another from back when your family came here to families that are trying to come here today, there is a, a level of pain or suffering that motivates them to take the courageous act to move to a completely different country maybe halfway around the world.</p>
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<p>Um, you know, and, and we often forget that, you know, just the, the poverty or the hunger, like, uh, which, you know, is that feeling of pain but just for that chance for reinvention and, uh- Yeah. Well, </p>
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<p>and for, and for m- for many, not just reinvention and possibility, it's about survival. </p>
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<p>Survival, yeah. Uh, ba- and, and, uh, and pr- protecting in, in some cases the most vulnerable members of their family, their children.</p>
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<p>Yeah. And, uh, trying to make the world a little bit better for them. Yeah. </p>
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<p>Uh, uh, you may not have caught this, but I just published a piece on LinkedIn. I've got a newsletter called The Reunion Newsletter, which keys off the themes in my book. And, um, I was, uh... And in the piece, I was thinking about Pope Leo's remarks in Spain recently and about the importance of the migrant.</p>
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<p>And, um The thing that is extraordinary about these times, and, and we have done this before. Yes. We did this to my ancestors, we did this to your ancestors, we did this to, to everyone, and we did this to the indigenous populations who preexisted and pre, uh, occupied, if you will, this land, uh, from, say, European descendants of Europe.</p>
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<p>We denigrate those who are desperate. </p>
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<p>Uh-huh. </p>
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<p>We strike down and, uh, demonize those who are not just othered or who are other, um, but, but we, um, blame the poor for being poor. </p>
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<p>Sure. </p>
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<p>You know, uh, and that seems not only contrary to, um, the message of the United States, the promise of United States, what Langston Hughes wrote in his brilliant poem, Let America Be America.</p>
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<p>Um, the, what America stands for in, in, in that way. Um, but it also stands against what is the, really at the heart of the Jude-Judeo-Christian tradition and, and the, the spiritual wisdom traditions that exist across the world to treat those who are in need as a threat goes against everything our wisdom teachers teach us And yet we do it again and again and again and again.</p>
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<p>And we are not alone in doing it. We do it. We as a humanity do it. </p>
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<p>There's something about our biology, even though when we have great wisdom to extend loving kindness to those who most need it, there's something about our tribalism that gets in the way of us extending that on a regular basis. Because to your point, yeah, we keep on doing it.</p>
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<p>And as a planet, we keep on doing it to each other. So </p>
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<p>Toni Morrison said that we reject the stranger. I'm paraphrasing her. We reject the stranger because the stranger represents parts of ourselves that we want to reject. </p>
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<p>Yes. </p>
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<p>And so it all comes back to shadow. It all comes back to basic psychology and the fact that when we open our hearts, bodhichitta, to others, we're really opening our hearts to ourselves.</p>
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<p>So </p>
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<p>It all comes down to that conversation that we have with ourselves and knowing thyself. So in these times where it's easy to lump people into blue, red, purple, right, wrong, good, bad Are there times where you w- feel connected to the country even if you're amongst people that you may disagree with?</p>
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<p>Yeah. In fact, my wife and I, uh, my wife Allie and I were just having this conversation. Um, you know, we live in farm country, and many of the folks that, uh, we need to help us, uh, whether it's a, you know, an excavator who, um, is rebuilding a berm on our property with a big old piece of equipment who shows up wearing a, a, y- Make America Great hat again.</p>
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<p>What I always say, though, is, and, and we know this is true, and it sounds trite, but if I sit down and I talk with them- </p>
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<p>Yeah ... </p>
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<p>I mean, I know what they want. They want the exact same thing. You know, as I said before, before we started recording, I'm a new grandpa. I have two granddaughters. They just want their granddaughters to grow up safe, warm, and happy.</p>
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<p>And, and, and yet, I, the, the, uh, uh, and I made this point in Reunion, we have to go to see who benefits from disunion. Who benefits from it? Yeah. And the people who benefit it, benefit from it are people who want to, who, people who accumulate wealth and power and people who want to maintain power. </p>
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<p>Mm-hmm.</p>
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<p>Whether, and whether they do it consciously or not, what they're doing is trying to s- solidify their grasp on, on power. What is the big push against migrants in any form, whether, whether they've entered the country in a documented way or an undocumented way? The biggest push is, um, something is going to be lost in terms of my power, my status, my economic wellbeing, and that fear gets exploited by those who are in power So that there's an, there's an enemy </p>
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<p>Yeah, we once, we, we once had that great enemy in, um, back, uh, um, a few, a few years ago, um, back to the Ronald Reagan days.</p>
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<p>We had it in, we had it in the Soviet Union. You know, their... Our enemy was, uh, us- The </p>
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<p>axis of evil ... </p>
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<p>the axis of evil. George Bush called it, </p>
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<p>right? </p>
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<p>Yeah. The wall came down, and then we turned on ourselves, um. Right. And, uh- Right ... keeping in mind that we had been turning on ourselves, you know, well before that time too.</p>
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<p>So it wasn't, you know, we, we- </p>
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<p>Uh, look, look, look at the history. Uh, l- look... Just, just pull out the story of Sacco and Vanzetti and how they were, uh, murdered by the state, uh, for basically union activities, worker right ac- activities. I mean, we have, uh, been exploiting, you know, the, the, the Alien and Seditions Act was created under the auspices of our Founding Fathers.</p>
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<p>Yeah. </p>
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<p>And so part of the myth of America is that the Founding Fathers themselves were welcoming and- </p>
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<p>Yeah. Mm. Yeah. The, yeah, that's a tale that we love to weave, don't we? Um- That's right. So- That's right ... yeah, so, so I think you know that I use Kintsugi as a metaphor for my podcast in general, but also this series.</p>
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<p>So in that spirit of connection, of healing, of perhaps growth once we've been able to heal, is there one thing, and I know there's, you know, as I've talked to other people, they're like, "Only one thing, Michael?" You know, it's like, so many people have, uh, bypassed my recommendation just to share one thing- Mm-hmm</p>
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<p>and they've shared multiple things. But i- is there one thing that you would like to address first to, maybe not in a perfect way, but in a meaningful first step to help us connect and he- and potentially heal and grow from that, in that Kintsugi spirit? </p>
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<p>Yeah. I, I actually think I can summarize it. Um, when I was writing Reunion, towards the end of the draft of the manuscript, uh, Bell Hooks passed away.</p>
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<p>Mm. </p>
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<p>And, uh, in reading, rereading some of her works, I came across a poem she had written called "When Angels Speak of Love." And she said, um, "When angels speak of love, they tell us all things are union and reunion. There is no separation, no end to paradise So what Bell Hooks is teaching in that poem is that we need to listen to the angels speak of love.</p>
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<p>Mm. </p>
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<p>And there are two or three angels embodied in that. One is the angels of our ancestors. The other is the angels of teachers all around us, and they might be mmm, the dump truck driver who just rode down the street. </p>
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<p>Sure. </p>
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<p>But the third, and maybe the most important angel, is the better angel of your own nature.</p>
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<p>The root of all disunion is our inability to really work with our own minds, our own hearts. And it's all projected out into systemic othering, and it makes all the other people evil. Um, when angels speak of love, they tell us all things are union and reunion. Right there. </p>
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<p>That's a good one to start with.</p>
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<p>Mm. </p>
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<p>So we'll wrap up here. So I've been asking the person before you if they have a question for you, and in turn, you get to ask a question of the next guest on the series. So, uh, this question comes from Lynn. So outside your homes, uh, of Colorado and New York, is there a place in the US where you feel most alive and connected?</p>
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<p>And you can place your own definition of what it means to be connected to that. </p>
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<p>Uh, the Grand Canyon. I've done, uh, three trips through the Grand Canyon, spending weeks at a time, and, you know, we said before, mountains don't care. The canyon doesn't care. The canyon is four billion years old. It like... I, I envision the spirits that occupy the canyon saying, "This too shall pass All things will pass away, and the canyon will survive.</p>
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<p>Um, yeah. So that's the place. </p>
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<p>Very cool. One of my fondest, most cherished memories of my whole life was when my wife and I took our youngest-- our oldest daughter when she was just four months old. We had to go... I had to go out for a business meeting out in Arizona, and then we drove up to the Grand Canyon, and we hiked down a bit, and about halfway down our hike, uh, my wife was nursing, breastfeeding my oldest, and it was like, uh, that was a, that was a good moment.</p>
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<p>So- Mm. Good moment. All right, so what question, Jerry, do you have for the next person I chat with? </p>
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<p>Well, my infamous question is, how have I been complicit in creating the conditions I say I don't want? But the way I would alter that question for this is the way I altered it in Reunion, and that is, how have I been complicit in and benefited from the conditions in the world I say I don't wanna see?</p>
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<p>Okay. </p>
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<p>Okay. So the work implicit in that is we don't like disunion, so what is it about... What is it that I might have to give up that I love in order for us to unite? Yeah. </p>
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<p>Great question. I will ask the next person I chat with in the series that very question and see what they have to say. So thank you always for the ripple effect that you're putting into the world and helping us think about ourselves as we look in the mirror, but each other in the hopes that we can form a more perfectly imperfect union.</p>
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<p>So Jerry, thanks for joining me. </p>
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<p>Thanks for having me, Michael. It's a blast.</p>
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<p>When this series was just a simple spark in my mind, one of the first people I thought to invite was Jerry, based on our previous conversation when my podcast was known as the Kintsugi Podcast. I simply love his take on life and his question at the end. How would you respond to it? What do you need to give up in order for us to unite?</p>
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<p>Let me know in the comment section. And as always, thanks for being here. Thank you for listening, and I hope you'll check out the rest of the series as we travel around America, speaking to everyday folks who are trying to figure it out, but are taking steps to do just that, about their reflections as America has turned 250.</p>
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<p>But until then, be sure to check out my other episodes of Whole Again, and let's celebrate our scars as golden symbols of our strength and resilience. And don't forget to have fun storming the castle.</p>
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<p>And if you wish to learn more about creating beautiful ripples and how to prevent a bad moment from turning into a bad day, please visit my website, michaelobrienshift.com, and sign up for my newsletter called The Ripple Effect. And join us each Monday, Wednesday, and Friday here at Whole Again, and discover how you can heal, grow, and become more resilient, and celebrate our scars as golden symbols of strength and resilience.</p>
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<p>Until then, remember, you can always come back to your breath. You've got this, and we've got you.</p>