A Perfectly Imperfect Union: Reflecting on America 250 with Vince Caruso
In the latest episode of A Perfectly Imperfect Union, I travel to The Mountain State, cue up the John Denver, to connect with poet Vincent Caruso.
We talk about whether or not we've been measuring success in America by all the wrong things
He's watched teachers pay out of pocket for their classrooms and nurses burn out while CEOs and athletes get treated like heroes, and he thinks our money priorities are simply out of whack.
Vince's story is one that many Americans have experienced and it's a story worth listening to.
You can connect with him on LinkedIn.
And his question for you and our next guest is:
What is the end game of the American experiment?
Do you believe utopias are even possible, and if not, what's the compromise?
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<p> Hey there, it's Michael. Welcome to Whole Again, the show that's here in support of you creating a meaningful life and the person you're becoming. And I'm excited to share a new series with you that will air this summer as America turns 250 years old, which is still pretty young relative to many other countries across this big blue marble that we all share.</p>
<p></p>
<p>The series is called A Perfectly Imperfect Union. In 2022, I rode my bike across America from Astoria, Oregon to the Lincoln Memorial. My wife drove our RV and she had two co-pilots, Jester and Hope, two springer spaniels And when we did it, America was coming out of the pandemic and we were hurting.</p>
<p></p>
<p>Hurting from things that had happened prior to the pandemic, of course, going through what we all went through. And at that time, and this is something I still believe today, is that we were entering an inflection point. An inflection point for us to hopefully pause, breathe, and reflect on who we wish to become as individuals, as communities, and as a country.</p>
<p></p>
<p>As I pedaled across America, I wanted to share America's beauty with others, her natural beauty and the beauty of her people. And I also wanted to share where we were hurting As America turns 250, I believe Kintsugi, which is something we use as a metaphor here at Whole Again, is a perfect metaphor for where we are as a country.</p>
<p></p>
<p>There's so much beauty to celebrate, and we can also acknowledge that parts of us feel broken or are broken. But we can find a way to come back together, just like Kintsugi teaches us. And when we do, we don't try to erase or cover up where we have scars or blemishes. We highlight them in gold, and we celebrate them as symbols of our strength and resilience.</p>
<p></p>
<p>Kintsugi is called the golden repair, and in essence, we can see beauty in something that's perfectly imperfect. During this series, I plan to speak to at least two people in each state and the District of Columbia. So 102 conversations with real folk, as I like to say. We're gonna let the celebrities and the big influencers have their day somewhere else.</p>
<p></p>
<p>But here, I wanna reach out and talk to real people and listen to their reflections as they think about America turning 250 years old. And my hope is, is that you'll tune in to at least one, if not all 102, 'cause my theory going into this is that you'll hear different perspectives. Some may be aligned with yours, others may not.</p>
<p></p>
<p>But my hope is that you hear the goodness in your fellow citizens and realize, as Maya Angelou shared with us, "We are more alike, my friends, than we are unalike." We are more alike, my friends, than we are unalike. I've had the privilege of traveling all over the world and all over this country, and this belief is something that I hold deep inside of me.</p>
<p></p>
<p>So yes, I do believe that we are more alike, my friends, than we are unalike. So if you're ready to get to know one of your perfectly imperfect neighbors like all of us, take a healthy breath in and a slow releasing breath out, and get to know Vince Caruso</p>
<p></p>
<p>Vince, my friend, thank you for joining me here on A Perfectly Imperfect Union and accepting, like, a random outreach on LinkedIn. So the platform without really much of a soul, but, like, I saw your profile. I was like, "This sounds like an interesting guy, and I have to reach out." So I'm so, I'm so grateful that you accepted and you're here.</p>
<p></p>
<p>So how the, how the heck are you today? </p>
<p></p>
<p>I'm great, Michael. You know, I've been listening to this podcast, uh, and I really wanna highlight Laura, uh, Norton Cruz of Alaska. I, I was listening to her, and I wanted to-- the way she articulated everything, uh, I just wanted to echo everything she said. And, uh, I'm stoked to be here.</p>
<p></p>
<p>Uh, it's an honor and a privilege, and, uh, I hope I can, uh, live up to the level of professionalism I hear from everybody. </p>
<p></p>
<p>You got it, you got it in the bag. I am, I, I j- I have full, full faith and full trust in you. And yeah, Laura, what a great... Along with all, all the other people I've had a, the opportunity and privilege to- Yeah, so many great voices</p>
<p></p>
<p>so many great voices, and, like, Laura's work is so important, how she really, h-how, how clearly she articulated amplifying voices that have been marginalized. I think it's such, yeah, such great work. But, like, a g- uh, for, for, for those listening, if you haven't listened to that conversation, it just got released, um, today as, as we record this.</p>
<p></p>
<p>Uh, take a listen to Laura's take on America. So very cool. So for those that don't know you, Vince, can you take a moment to introduce yourself? And what great state in this country are you calling in from? </p>
<p></p>
<p>So Michael, uh, my name is Vincent Caruso, and I'm a poet first and foremost. I, uh, I think everything stems from poetry for me.</p>
<p></p>
<p>Uh, I got an MFA from, uh, the University of Miami in, uh, 2011 and, uh Yeah, I fell in love with poetry at about 15. </p>
<p></p>
<p>Oh, cool. </p>
<p></p>
<p>The creative process, and I think smarter people would've stopped Along the way, it's been, it's been quite a journey. But in grad school al- also we, uh, we, we ended up doing, like, these sort of collaged films.</p>
<p></p>
<p>Uh, my professor, Walter K. Liu, uh, was, uh... He spearheaded a, an art called movie telling, and that got me into, like, sort of making poetry films. </p>
<p></p>
<p>Oh, cool. </p>
<p></p>
<p>And, uh, originally, like, we, uh, we, I- we had a live movie night where I had collaged Pulp Fiction, The Exorcist, and, uh, The Big Chill, and, uh, w- and I had to, like, r- read over top, overdub this collage, and that was a real high point.</p>
<p></p>
<p>And then ever since, I've wanted to make, like, sort of poetry, like, low-budget guerrilla, uh, films. And then after grad school, I got sick of poetry, and I read David Foster Wallace and his creative nonfiction, and I really wanted to get into just the personal essay form and creative nonfiction. And so I put writer, you know, on social media platforms as well, as well as sort of amateur filmmaker m- uh, and, uh, multimedia artist.</p>
<p></p>
<p>And then finally, um And this is probably the big one that I leaned into for many years is, uh, mental health advocacy. Uh, I have, uh, sort of struggled with, uh, a, a severe form of bipolar disorder. And, uh, so I've seen all sides of, uh, America, so to speak. I've seen, uh, higher education. I've been a substitute teacher, and I walked into all Black communities, and I've seen psych wards, and I've even been homeless and crazy.</p>
<p></p>
<p>And if you've ever seen a homeless, crazy person running around, uh, that's me. But fortunately, I have good people who helped me get out of that, and I landed in Wheeling, West Virginia, my hometown, where, uh, I did group therapy for, like, two years straight, basically getting an AA in therapy. And one of those was mindfulness, which I know you do a med-meditation, uh, podcast.</p>
<p></p>
<p>So I, I've, I've done mindfulness training and meditation for a very long time. And even before now, I was just listening to some delta waves just, uh, just to cal-calm myself down. And, uh, so yeah, uh, I can speak somewhat of, uh, Wheeling, West Virginia. It's a unique place. Uh, I don't know if I'm exactly representative of it, but, uh, I can, uh, talk about West Virginia a little bit, or at least Wheeling.</p>
<p></p>
<p>Yeah, that would be great. Like, I love, um, all the different perspectives you bring, and I'll, I will say this is, like, a safe harbor place, like our conversation, which is, like, uh, awesome. But, um, yeah, I'd love to, like, hear, like, for those that haven't been to Wheeling or haven't been to West Virginia, uh, you know, I've, I've-- obviously people have perspectives and biases, uh, with probably, like, many of the states, but we haven't traveled into all of them.</p>
<p></p>
<p>So what's something that's really special about Wheeling or just West Virginia in general? </p>
<p></p>
<p>Uh, you know, I-- it's a, it, it's my hometown, and uh, I kinda came back here because I've moved around all my life, never married, never had kids. I, I came here to get treatment. And I think everybody here, uh, has been affected by the opioid epidemic and, uh, poverty in general.</p>
<p></p>
<p>And so you find, uh, what's special about Wheeling specifically, it's kind of like a, uh A suburb of Pittsburgh. It's right at the very northern panhandle. So Ohio's-- It, it's on the Ohio River, and, uh, it's right o- uh, Ohio's right next door, same as Pennsylvania. And, uh, hist- uh, the history of Wheeling is very fascinating because it used to be the capital of Virginia, uh, before the- Oh, I didn't know </p>
<p></p>
<p>that.</p>
<p></p>
<p>Oh, wow. </p>
<p></p>
<p>I, uh, if I'm correct. Yeah. I would, I would go, I would go to, uh, if you're ever in town, uh, it's got a fascinating history. My mom used to come up to Wheeling from, uh, you know, you dress up, and the Capitol Music Hall here, uh, used to h-have acts like Elvis and, uh, Johnny Cash and, uh So, uh, there's a lot that's, it's more diverse than one would expect, and it's a pretty unique, uh, unique place along the Ohio River.</p>
<p></p>
<p>Nice. Well, well, when I rode my bike across the country in 2022, I rode through Wheeling on my way to Pittsburgh. </p>
<p></p>
<p>Did you? </p>
<p></p>
<p>Yeah. So, um, yeah, it was, like, going through Ohio and then into, uh, Wheeling and, uh, uh, next to the river and, you know, I s- I, I saw, like, some of the coal, you know, uh, industry that's there and just, um- Oh, yeah</p>
<p></p>
<p>yeah, you know, came into Pittsburgh and, you know, planted our RV there in Wheeling for the night, and then, uh, you know, had to move on as we a- as I continued to pedal through, uh, Pennsylvania and Maryland. But yeah, I enjoyed, I enjoyed my time there and as a young salesperson, I also had West Virginia as part of my territory, so I was able to go into, like, Martinsburg and then, uh, uh, near the university and stuff like that.</p>
<p></p>
<p>So I haven't been all around, but I've been in parts of West Virginia and I just love the, obviously the nature of it and, uh, all the people I came in contact with are just, like, really good souls. </p>
<p></p>
<p>You know, Wheeling, it, it's known as the Friendly City and, uh, I, I mean, that could be contested by some people-</p>
<p></p>
<p>but, but people are pretty chatty here in a way that's like a small town- </p>
<p></p>
<p>Yeah ... </p>
<p></p>
<p>um, charm. You know, it, you just walk down the street. I mean, some people ogle a little too much. It, it, they'll stare or whatever, but, but in general, uh, it, you can strike up conversation with anybody here and, uh, that's, that's kind of one of the neat things about living here is just walking down the street, uh, you know, you're kind of on the radar and everybody's just talking, talking, uh, uh, talking to each other, so.</p>
<p></p>
<p>Oh, that's awesome. Well, thanks for sharing a little bit about Wheeling and, like, some of its hist- history and as someone who's listened to the series, you know that I've been asking people about America as she's turned 250 this year, and what America means to them. So from your perspective, Vince, how would you answer that?</p>
<p></p>
<p>What does America mean to me? </p>
<p></p>
<p>Yeah. What does it mean? I </p>
<p></p>
<p>don't know. I think it needs a therapist. Maybe even a sex therapist. No, no, I...</p>
<p></p>
<p>No, in all seriousness, uh- Yeah ... in all seriousness, I, I, I, you know, I, I, I... It's such a loaded question that I've often, uh- You know, a while back I was looking up national identities and nation states, and there's really two kinds of nation states. There's ethnic and, uh, civic, and this fascinated me. But I think, I think that's sort of the Wikipedia version of it and a textbook version of it, because national identity is kinda the conversation.</p>
<p></p>
<p>And I mean, it's such a profound question. Jack Kerouac, you know, he went on the road- </p>
<p></p>
<p>Sure ... </p>
<p></p>
<p>to, to find out what America was. Simon & Garfunkel wrote a song about it, and, uh, so what, what does it mean, uh, is this profound question that I think, uh, there's a lot of competing... In fact, uh, you know, nation states in general, I think you had talked in-- at one point that, you know, United States really isn't that old, but neither are nations in general.</p>
<p></p>
<p>Yeah. </p>
<p></p>
<p>And, uh, you know, Italy wasn't a, a nation state until the Civil-- our Civil War. And so this idea of nationhood, uh, has certain features that are pretty common, uh, among nations. One of them like being, uh, you know, uh, income inequality and things like that. That seems to be not a bug, but a feature of nation states.</p>
<p></p>
<p>So to answer your question, what does it mean to me? It's kind of the upside down for me. I, uh, having been homeless, I, I, uh, I'm very critical and, uh, sometimes I think what's up is down and down is up. And, uh, you know, from a structural standpoint, I think, um, we have these very civic ideals and textbook ideals, but, uh, I see America as a system.</p>
<p></p>
<p>Like it's a very, uh, complex sy- systemic thing. And, uh, one, one, uh, one wing of that system is Hollywood, I feel like. </p>
<p></p>
<p>Okay. </p>
<p></p>
<p>And, uh, some of the culture from cowboys and Indians to '80s rom-coms, I think often has sort of manufactured a culture in America. And then when you go out into America and you actually talk to people, uh, of all walks of life anywhere in America, whe- whether it's Miami or p- you know, the West Coast, or, you know, you've, you've come to find this profound question about what is America.</p>
<p></p>
<p>And I, I personally think it's a system, and I think a lot of people feel kind of powerless in this system because institutions and corporations and things like that have more... Uh, there's like degrees of power, and your vote matters, and it definitely does, but there's definitely degrees of powers and the institutions.</p>
<p></p>
<p>Uh, and sometimes the power structures aren't even elected officials. They may be what I would call village elders. </p>
<p></p>
<p>Mm. </p>
<p></p>
<p>And, uh, somebody like Donald Trump, his father would've been a village elder of, uh, New York City. </p>
<p></p>
<p>Or Queens. So- Yeah. Or just like, or just the borough of Queens. Yeah, I mean- </p>
<p></p>
<p>Yes ... yeah, like there's elders in every community, and they're not necessarily the elected officials, and they, uh- They have a lot of say.</p>
<p></p>
<p>They have more say than I do </p>
<p></p>
<p>Yeah, no, definitely there is a h-hierarchy of, um, of power and influence, there's no doubt. And like, and you just look at the Supreme Court's decision on Citizens U- United, where, you know, corporations are now, like, considered people, right? And so, like, you know, it's just every vote- Yeah</p>
<p></p>
<p>every vote matters, but, um, the power structure in the system is definitely not evenly distributed across everyone. Yeah. So, um, yeah, a, a big, a big question, but that's one of the reasons why I'm asking. It's always good to hear everyone's, every- everyone's perspective of it. So I, I'm, I'm curious, Vince, like, you know, as you mentioned, you had a period of time where you were homeless.</p>
<p></p>
<p>Uh, what did you learn about your f- like, humanity and your fellow, your fellow citizen during that period of your life? </p>
<p></p>
<p>Uh, I think what I've learned, um, that maybe, uh, a lot of... And I, and I've seen it in psych wards, and I've seen it ever since in Wheeling, is that I've had a lot of breaks in, in life. You know?</p>
<p></p>
<p>I've, I've came from a well-to-do family. Uh, I have good people. I think a lot of people in America may not realize that there are people who have never had a break in their entire life. </p>
<p></p>
<p>Yeah. </p>
<p></p>
<p>Some people, some people had their knees shot off before they were able to even walk. Mm-hmm. I think that was one of the biggest eye-openers.</p>
<p></p>
<p>Like, when I was in one of the homeless shelters, it was separ- in Jacksonville, Florida, it was separated between men and women and children. And I almost wanted to break the law in some way, like in my situation. And I thought, you know, children are growing up in homeless shelters. Like, what does that mean for their growth and wellbeing and</p>
<p></p>
<p>You know what I mean? Yeah. Like, uh, no wonder why, uh, they may not follow the, the, the norm. You know? They may, they may, they may do things- </p>
<p></p>
<p>For just </p>
<p></p>
<p>over- ... differently </p>
<p></p>
<p>Yeah, for overall survival, right? </p>
<p></p>
<p>Yeah, just for pure survival. And, and, and I've seen that e- even in a town like Wheeling. Uh, you know, just, just some people, man, they, they, they, they didn't have a, they didn't have support.</p>
<p></p>
<p>They didn't have anybody. And I, I often think That that part of America is not-- they don't have voices, you know? And some people really were really talented. One guy in a psych ward I knew was as good a dancer. He could, he could have been... He, he was schizophrenic, uh, he was Black, and he was homeless, and he could dance better than Justin Timberlake.</p>
<p></p>
<p>And but the-- he, he would have never had the opportunities to show, uh... And, and I would, like, dance with him in the psych ward. Like, he was showing me moves- Yeah ... 'cause I love to dance. </p>
<p></p>
<p>Sure. </p>
<p></p>
<p>And, uh, you know, there's a lot of talent, talented people, and if this were really a meritocracy as we want it to be, uh, people like him would have all the resources they need so that he could show off his dancing skills.</p>
<p></p>
<p>Yeah. I hear you. But like, like, but a person, uh, as he is, like he, he, he's not like, he's not in that connected power broker group to have those opportunities and there's, you know, some people, as you mentioned, have never really gotten a break in their whole lifetime and there are other people who have been, um, they've been born on third base and they, they think they hit a triple, right?</p>
<p></p>
<p>You know, but they just had the luck of- Yeah ... who they were, you know, the family that they were born into and, and, um, but they, but they sometimes walk around thinking they did all, all this and they, they were self-made and it was like, well, you got a little bit of a head start compared to a whole bunch of other people.</p>
<p></p>
<p>I don't know if anybody's self-made in a system like America because there are many hands that bring your mail. They bring your mail, you know, they, they give you your coffee, you know. Uh, you know, there, there are people that you work with. There's people above, below, all around, and it's community in some sense, you know?</p>
<p></p>
<p>Uh, but I, it's a, it's an overall system and, and Some people, yeah, they, they, they have a leg up. They've already... And, and honestly, there's-- Like, I go back to this idea of, like, a textbook version of things. Don't listen to me. Go out and talk to people. Go talk to a homeless person. Give them 20 bucks and ask them their story and- Sure</p>
<p></p>
<p>give them human dignity. You know, how did they end up there? Why did they end up there? And, uh, they'll talk your ear off, you know? And, uh... But, but treat everybody that way, like the cashier at the gas station. He may be Bangladeshi and, uh, he's an immigrant and, uh You know, he may be an ambassador of sorts.</p>
<p></p>
<p>That's, that's one thing I think I've seen with immigrants is, you know, they don't wanna do damage to their culture and they don't wanna do damage to their people. And so they, they, they don't often go down rabbit holes with people, but you can learn about their culture through them. So I think just don't even-- like, like the, the premise of this podcast where we're all alike, I believe that too and I love Maya Angelou too.</p>
<p></p>
<p>Her, her poem, uh, uh, "Still I Rise" is, is just a, a wonderful poem. And, uh, so yeah. I, I-- that's kind of how I see, uh, America in some ways is, is I th- I think sometimes up is down and down is up and, uh, go out and-- go out and explore for yourself </p>
<p></p>
<p>And be curious with, um, your fellow human. So, uh, so one question I've been asking, Vince, you know, as you know, I use the Japanese art form of Kintsugi as a metaphor for this series but just overall for my podcast whole again.</p>
<p></p>
<p>You know, that, um, that ability like when pottery breaks to repair it, to, to heal and, and paint our scars with gold as a golden repair and they become symbols of our strength and resilience. So if you, if you could pu- pick one thing that could help the country heal and reconnect and maybe potentially grow from it down the road, uh, what would it be in, in our Kintsugi spirit here?</p>
<p></p>
<p>Oh, this is such a wonderful question because there's so many things, right, to, to, to, to fix up and to pick one thing, I think, uh, priorities with money maybe. I think our priorities with money are out of whack. Teachers shouldn't be paying out of pocket, uh, to teach our children. Uh, nurses uh work harder than anybody else and burn out more than anybody else like like paramedics and they should be paid just as much as ceos and doctors and uh even even the idea of success is tied with money and materialism and if you don't have that status and if you don't and i think you know it's no accident that somebody like elon musk or warren buffett or bill gates is always on the news because just saying whatever is coming to their their head it's to remind people of of sort of money and this system and uh to prioritize success in that way when really Success could be the way in which you, as you have pointed out, how, how you ripple in the world around you.</p>
<p></p>
<p>Yeah. </p>
<p></p>
<p>How do you treat your neighbor? How do you treat... And, and that's the other part of it that I would say is that, you know, I, I haven't heard too many people bring it up, but love. I mean- </p>
<p></p>
<p>Mm-hmm ... </p>
<p></p>
<p>love is so key, and, and, and I don't mean it just in the romantic sense. I mean, I mean, if you have love in your heart, you know, sh- spread that, spread that.</p>
<p></p>
<p>It, it, it... As C.S. Lewis once said, "Love is never wasted, for its value does not rest on reciprocity." And I s- I think our priorities with money and our relationships often are tied in a very transactional way. And again, that's, that... I, I say love is not wasted and it doesn't, just because it's not reciprocated or it's not some kind of transaction.</p>
<p></p>
<p>Yeah, I love that. Well, a l- lot of folks in the series have brought up kindness and compassion and, and, and love in, in their, in their way. I recently, over the weekend, I went back home to Rochester. My dad was celebrating his 90th birthday, and so he had- </p>
<p></p>
<p>Oh, </p>
<p></p>
<p>happy birthday ... pe- oh, thank you. Yeah. So he had some people from his, his life, uh, join a little surprise party.</p>
<p></p>
<p>And, and we didn't grow up, uh, wealthy. You know, there were certainly more families in our town that were better off fi- like financially from a, like a money perspective or, you know, as a teenager, like some kids in my class just had more stuff or the fancy sneakers and we were shopping at outlet malls and stuff like that.</p>
<p></p>
<p>And You know, my, so my dad wasn't like, say, rich financially, but he was, he was rich, I think, in the most important way. You know, he, he had-- he treated people well, he showed up in service, he tried to be kind, and they showed, they showed up for him. And, and actually a couple of his former coworkers came, much younger guys, they were, like, in their f- like, late 40s, early 50s, and they shared that my dad would, like, always show up for, um, the team and, and to the customers and just, like, that type of unity and that type of social connection, that richness, I think my dad had it in spades.</p>
<p></p>
<p>And I think that's, like, like what you're sort of talking to, Vince, is like, yeah, we, we have the, we have the math all wrong. You know, where teachers are struggling and nurses are struggling, but, you know, some guy who can, uh, uh, hit a home run, like, makes, like, uh, hundreds of, uh, millions of dollars. You know, it's, it's-- we have our, we have our priorities a little bit askew and, and out, and out of whack.</p>
<p></p>
<p>So, um, so we'll finish, we'll finish up here. So I've been asking, as you know, the person before you a que- if they have a question for the next guest. So I just got done talking with Joshua. He's a rising senior at LSU down in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. So his question is, I think it's a, a really sharp one. So if you look at America through the lens of twenty twenty-six, and if you could go back in time to the Founding Fathers and give them some advice on, "Hey, hey guys, this is, like, bubbling up as a, as a challenge for us in twenty twenty-six.</p>
<p></p>
<p>I wanna let you know about it so maybe you can do something, uh, to fix it in advance," uh, what would that be? </p>
<p></p>
<p>I think they'd have a heart attack if they saw the New York scar- skyline. I, I think the Founding Fathers, w- if they saw a cell phone, they would be like wizardry. They'd be, they'd be blown away. So I mean, if I could go back in time and actually give advice to the Founding Fathers, what would it</p>
<p></p>
<p>be? Uh, I think they were really... I mean, they were so intelligent. They were discussing everything, and they, they were-- I mean, the way they, from Rousseau to Jefferson to Franklin and all of them, they-- I think, I think- I, I don't even know if I have an answer because they, I, I, I think they, they really tried their best to, uh, create a checks and balance, and I think they honored, um, even George Washington sort of honored this by stepping down- </p>
<p></p>
<p>Yeah</p>
<p></p>
<p>instead of becoming a king, you know? </p>
<p></p>
<p>Yeah. </p>
<p></p>
<p>And so I, I think maybe, uh I, I, I don't even know what I'd tell them because they were, they were always discussing ideas and, you know, in order for a democracy to work, they really-- they believed that educated citizens and, uh, were necessary for democracy to work.</p>
<p></p>
<p>And so maybe they would've added more Bill of Rights to people that FDR, like, kind of made. He wanted to have a second Bill of Rights, and, uh, you can look those up, and they became the platform for the Democratic Party. And so I think, I think giving more, uh, rights to people, um, even though they wouldn't end up sort of in place and always...</p>
<p></p>
<p>I think just in a more extended Bill of Rights and really cementing the Bill of Rights as human rights for all people. And I know they just couldn't quite do that because it, it was a different time. But there might have been ways in which they could have extended the Bill of Rights to, uh, make them more all-encompassing and give them, give, give citizens more power and more agency.</p>
<p></p>
<p>Hmm. I like that. And you can also just advise them like, "Buckle up, guys. The future is pretty wild." So you're not gonna believe- </p>
<p></p>
<p>Embrace it. </p>
<p></p>
<p>Yeah ... you're not gonna b- Yeah. I, I ... you're not gonna believe your eyes. So, um, beyond your wildest imagination. So what question, Vince, do you have for the next person I chat with in our series?</p>
<p></p>
<p>So what is the end game to the American experiment? Ah. Where is this all going? Yeah. Do, uh, are, uh, are you a utopian-minded individual? Do you believe in utopias? Uh, can they exist? And if they can't, what is the compromise of, uh, uh, a utopia? What, what is the end game of, for, for all of where we're going?</p>
<p></p>
<p>That would be my question. </p>
<p></p>
<p>I love it. That's a great question. I will definitely ask the next person in our series. Actually, I'll be interviewing a couple people tomorrow, and I'll serve that question up. I can't wait to hear what they have to say and Vince, so thanks again for joining me and accepting that random outreach.</p>
<p></p>
<p>I, I so enjoyed our conversation and the ripple effect that you're putting into the world and helping, uh, the country become just a bit more perfectly imperfect, uh, as a union as we, as we pedal forward. So, um, I appreciate you, brother. Thank you. </p>
<p></p>
<p>Thank you.</p>
<p></p>
<p>I loved talking to Vince and I could have spoken to him for much, much longer. There are so many threads I wanted to pull. I was so curious about his life and what he's been through, what he's learned along the way. I believe he has so much wisdom to tap into. And his experience with homelessness is something that far too many of our fellow neighbors deal with.</p>
<p></p>
<p>In the richest country in the world, we shouldn't have so many people living without shelter, without a home. And each of us, regardless of where we happen to lay our head each night, has a story worth sharing and a story worth listening to. And if we take some time to do just that, I do believe we can become closer and form that perfectly imperfect union that we desire.</p>
<p></p>
<p>I hope you're listening to the rest of the series because I've had the privilege of talking with awesome sauce humans, everyday folks trying to figure it out as the country reflects on year 250. And of course, I'll have new episodes of Whole Again for you so you can step into the person you're becoming and a meaningful life.</p>
<p></p>
<p>But until then, remember to celebrate your scars as golden symbols of your strength and resilience. And don't forget to have fun storming the castle.</p>
<p></p>
<p>And if you wish to learn more about creating beautiful ripples and how to prevent a bad moment from turning into a bad day, please visit my website, michaelobrienshift.com, and sign up for my newsletter called The Ripple Effect. And join us each Monday, Wednesday, and Friday here at Whole Again, and discover how you can heal, grow, and become more resilient, and celebrate our scars as golden symbols of strength and resilience.</p>
<p></p>
<p>Until then, remember, you can always come back to your breath. You've got this, and we've got you.</p>
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