A Perfectly Imperfect Union: Reflecting on America 250 with Maggie Mick
The Whole Again Podcast: Mindfulness and Resilience through Kinstugi Wisdom airs every Monday, Wednesday and Friday with Pause Breathe Reflect Microdose Meditations, Growth Mindset and Mindfulness Tips, to help us transform our scars into healing and resilience.
And between May and October, I'm sharing a new series I'm calling: A Perfectly Imperfect Union. It's about connecting with every day folks as they reflect on America at 250. Conversations will air every Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday.
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What does freedom mean when you've seen what life looks like without it?
I recently sat down with Maggie Mick, a Kentucky-based government affairs leader with MultiState, co-host of The Political Life podcast, and a woman whose family history traces back to the first Welsh settlers of Philadelphia.
She's traveled the world as a soft diplomat, breaking bread with people in far-flung places, and what she came home with every time was gratitude.
But she's also watching something quietly erode: local community. The stickiness, as she calls it, that comes from knowing your neighbor, showing up for a stranger, gathering in shared spaces. Without it, she says, we lose our ability to hold anyone accountable for anything.
And then there's Harry. Her great-grandfather, who survived an orphan train, indentured servitude, and an abusive placement only to escape, join the military, raise nine children, build a journalism career, and become so beloved in southeast Nebraska that there's now a statue of him at the Orphan Train Museum.
Harry is the American dream, and Maggie carries him with her.
You can connect with Maggie via MultiState, The Political Life Podcast, or LinkedIn.
And finally, Maggie's question for you and our next guest in our series, Laura Cross, is:
If you could live in any state other than the one you currently call home, which would it be and why?
Share your answer in the comments and share this episode with someone you love.
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<p> Hey there, it's Michael. Welcome to Whole Again, the show that's here in support of you creating a meaningful life and the person you're becoming. And I'm excited to share a new series with you that will air this summer as America turns 250 years old, which is still pretty young relative to many other countries across this big blue marble that we all share.</p>
<p></p>
<p>The series is called A Perfectly Imperfect Union. In 2022, I rode my bike across America from Astoria, Oregon to the Lincoln Memorial. My wife drove our RV, and she had two co-pilots, Jester and Hope, two springer spaniels And when we did it, America was coming out of the pandemic and we were hurting.</p>
<p></p>
<p>Hurting from things that had happened prior to the pandemic, of course, going through what we all went through. And at that time, and this is something I still believe today, is that we were entering an inflection point. An inflection point for us to hopefully pause, breathe, and reflect on who we wish to become as individuals, as communities, and as a country.</p>
<p></p>
<p>As I pedaled across America, I wanted to share America's beauty with others, her natural beauty and the beauty of her people. And I also wanted to share where we were hurting As America turns 250, I believe Kintsugi, which is something we use as a metaphor here at Whole Again, is a perfect metaphor for where we are as a country.</p>
<p></p>
<p>There's so much beauty to celebrate, and we can also acknowledge that parts of us feel broken or are broken. But we can find a way to come back together, just like Kintsugi teaches us. And when we do, we don't try to erase or cover up where we have scars or blemishes. We highlight them in gold, and we celebrate them as symbols of our strength and resilience.</p>
<p></p>
<p>Kintsugi is called the golden repair, and in essence, we can see beauty in something that's perfectly imperfect. During this series, I plan to speak to at least two people in each state and the District of Columbia, so 102 conversations with real folk, as I like to say. We're gonna let the celebrities and the big influencers have their day somewhere else.</p>
<p></p>
<p>But here, I wanna reach out and talk to real people and listen to their reflections as they think about America turning 250 years old. And my hope is, is that you'll tune in to at least one, if not all 102, 'cause my theory going into this is that you'll hear different perspectives. Some may be aligned with yours, others may not.</p>
<p></p>
<p>But my hope is that you hear the goodness in your fellow citizens and realize, as Maya Angelou shared with us, "We are more alike, my friends, than we are unalike." We are more alike, my friends, than we are unalike. I've had the privilege of traveling all over the world and all over this country, and this belief is something that I hold deep inside of me.</p>
<p></p>
<p>So yes, I do believe that we are more alike, my friends, than we are unalike. So if you're ready to meet one of your fellow neighbors who, like all of us, is perfectly imperfect, take a healthy breath in and a slow releasing breath out, and get to know Maggie Mick.</p>
<p></p>
<p>Maggie, my friend, thank you for joining me on this series, A Perfectly Imperfect Union. How are you feeling today? I'm </p>
<p></p>
<p>having a fantastic day. It's great to be with you. Thank you for the invitation. </p>
<p></p>
<p>Yeah. I, I'm so grateful that you accepted, 'cause I know it was a random reach-out. And so, uh, kudos to you for the courage to accept a random request to join me here.</p>
<p></p>
<p>It's fantastic. So for those that don't- </p>
<p></p>
<p>The aspiration is, the aspiration is worthy. Yeah And you said Jim O'Brien's, you know, brother from another mother. I'm always gonna respond to that. </p>
<p></p>
<p>Well, I didn't mention in my note that my dad's name is Jim O'Brien. So when I saw that, I was like, "Come on." I'm like, "I have to reach out to Maggie.</p>
<p></p>
<p>This is- </p>
<p></p>
<p>Two wonderful </p>
<p></p>
<p>Jims in </p>
<p></p>
<p>the world ... this is </p>
<p></p>
<p>just, this is just perfect." So for those that don't know you, can you take a moment to introduce who you are, and also where do you currently live, uh, statewise? Mm-hmm. I am Maggie Mick. I live in Lexington, Kentucky. I commute to Washington, DC every couple weeks to my office there.</p>
<p></p>
<p>And I am in the leadership group of a wonderful 50-state firm called MultiState.</p>
<p></p>
<p>Um, but I am privileged to call Kentucky home and raise my family here. And on the side, I do a little podca- podcast called The Political Life, and my partner on that is Jim O'Brien. </p>
<p></p>
<p>That's really cool. So for those that don't know Kentucky, 'cause we live in a big country, and I don't assume that everyone has been to every state in the union, what's something really cool about Kentucky?</p>
<p></p>
<p>Kentucky is kind of the confluence of the North and the South. Um, it is a state that feels Southern in some pockets, um, but Midwest in others. Um, so- Hmm ... you'll hear really strong accents, you'll hear a lot of Southern pride, but you'll also feel kind of this connectivity to Ohio and Missouri and Illinois, which are just, you know, up the road.</p>
<p></p>
<p>So it's, it's, um, not the Deep South, but you start to get the, the friendliness of the South as you enter into our jurisdiction. </p>
<p></p>
<p>I can appreciate that because for Louisville, correct me if I get this wrong- </p>
<p></p>
<p>Louisville ... </p>
<p></p>
<p>Cincinnati is almost like a, like a sister city, right? Mm-hmm. So people can live in Louis- Louisville and go to Cincinnati to work and vice versa.</p>
<p></p>
<p>Is that the case? Well, </p>
<p></p>
<p>it's, it's about an hour, but a lot of- Okay ... people live in Northern Kentucky, which is a major part of our state population. A lot of small cities pepper that, that state line, but then they cross over the bridge into Cincinnati. So Louisville's a little bit down the road, down the interstate, um, but Northern Kentucky has a major populace, uh, for, for our state.</p>
<p></p>
<p>All right, cool. So what do people get wrong about Kentucky? 'Cause we all have bias. We look at certain states as like, well, they're like this. The people here are like that. So do anybody, does anyone get Kentucky wrong? Or if they do, w- what do they get wrong about it? </p>
<p></p>
<p>Well, we're more than just Kentucky Fried Chicken, even though we do like it here.</p>
<p></p>
<p>You know, we're, we're a tourist destination with bourbon and horses. Um, but our state has such rich history. Um, you know, the Battle of Perryville was here. There were a lot of con- confusion about was, um, Kentucky a Confederate state. I was just in Virginia, so Civil War history is fresh on my mind. But it's- Sure</p>
<p></p>
<p>it's a, it's a state that really has held its independence politically. It's a red state, but it's got these really deep blue pockets, so people come together and are neighborly and friendly. Um, and yeah, I think that it's a beautiful identity to be a Kentuckian. Very hospitable, um, because of our tourism industry.</p>
<p></p>
<p>Absolutely. I've always enjoyed when I've gone to Kentucky. Every trip has been really enjoyable. Although, fun fact, I was supposed to ride my bike through Kentucky when I rode across the country in 2022, but people warned me about the wild dogs in the southern part of the state. So I rerouted and it ended up not finishing in Yorktown, Virginia, but actually DC.</p>
<p></p>
<p>That happened to be more fitting 'cause I met my wife there, but- </p>
<p></p>
<p>Nice ... </p>
<p></p>
<p>um, so I, I didn't experience the dogs of Kentucky, so. </p>
<p></p>
<p>Hopefully you ran into a few horses. </p>
<p></p>
<p>We, we, we did, yes. We definitely ran into a few horses, but no, no dogs, and I'm gonna chalk that up as a, a little bit of an exaggeration by the people who to- told me that.</p>
<p></p>
<p>So, um, so what we're gonna give, we're gonna give Kentucky a little bit of a pass on the whole dog thing, but I really enjoyed all my time. Okay. So let's pretend we're c- we're coming up here as we sit down here to record this, America's 250th birthday on July 4th, so it's good to have a picnic. You're sitting around the picnic table with friends and family and maybe some of your colleagues, and they ask you, "Hey Maggie, what does America mean to you?"</p>
<p></p>
<p>How do you respond to their question? </p>
<p></p>
<p>To me, America means freedom. </p>
<p></p>
<p>Mm. </p>
<p></p>
<p>Because I've had the opportunity and privilege to travel around the world as kind of a soft diplomat or junior diplomat as part of the American Council of Young Political Leaders, um, an organization, um, supported by the, um, State Department, and it brings together, um, Republicans and Democrats to travel together to far-flung places, to break bread in places outside of their own communities and states, and to come back hopefully better, better representatives of our country.</p>
<p></p>
<p>And what I always came away from those trips, I was fortunate to go on a number of them, was that what I think that Americans, you know, value most is, like, love and the ability to love, but people in other countries value freedom because it is not so inherited. I remember being in Turkey, and they were so focused on freedom, and it made me realize, oh, we take it for granted.</p>
<p></p>
<p>And this individual kind of a posture that we take to our, to who we are, and it dates back to when we were founded, it really is based on the pursuit to be free. Um, and so I think we take it for granted, but it is something that we should always have our eye on so that we always remain free. </p>
<p></p>
<p>Mm. So well said I was speaking with a few other people last week who also had the privilege of traveling, much like yourself, as you described.</p>
<p></p>
<p>And I think when we travel, when we get outside of this country and we see how it might be in other countries, we can come back and appreciate what we have here and not take it for granted. It, it opens up our aperture, it opens up our perspective. So I'm, I'm grateful that you, you shared that. I think traveling and getting a passport and going abroad, if you, if you can do that, I think is a really good learning experience.</p>
<p></p>
<p>It's the best way you can spend any money you've ever earned is to get out. </p>
<p></p>
<p>Yeah, get out and experience, you know, e- experience what life is like in, in other places. And you'll also find that, like, they too sort of want the same things as we do. Mm-hmm. You know, there, there's a l- there's a lot of overlap there, so.</p>
<p></p>
<p>So in, in our country, uh, many of us have lineage to people who have come before us, right? You know, they, a lot of immig- immigration stories or people that have a, a history with this land. Do you know much about your family's story of coming to America? </p>
<p></p>
<p>It's really interesting. My mom, um, just presented to her PEO group on actually my father's side of the family, who came over quite recently, and then her side of the family was here at the beginning.</p>
<p></p>
<p>So her family, and we figured this out through a trip to Philadelphia a few years ago, my husband and I did before, actually more than a few years ago now. It was before children. Um, but we went to go find, um, where my family's land was in Philadelphia. We knew it was there. Uh, we had information from, um, the DAR, um, packet that my aunt or aunt put together, um, when our family was, was first in that group, and we knew that we were the first brickmasons laying the roads.</p>
<p></p>
<p>We built the first church in Philadelphia. We were there. We came over- Wow ... on the first Welsh trip, or the first Welsh, um, boat, and had been there since that city was built and, and quite literally built that city, but we never knew where the farm was. And so we're go- we're walking, we're walking, we're in the completely different neighborhood, and my husband, who's a, who's really good on genealogy, called the local historical society and was like, "Can you help us out?"</p>
<p></p>
<p>And they very quickly, within an hour, pulled up enough information to say, "You are at First and Market," I think is the intersection. So we go to First and Market. We're walking, walking, walking, and we get to that intersection and we look up And the farm was where Benjamin Franklin's museum currently is.</p>
<p></p>
<p>You know that s- frame structure with his house? Yes. That's where my family's farm was. He purchased it 10 years after we left to go to Virginia. Um, and I just always found that to be absolutely just one of my most favorite moments was to think, wow, yes, I see the bricks that we laid, but to know that Benjamin Franklin, it, I mean- Yes</p>
<p></p>
<p>it's still there. It marks the, you know, marks the spot. It just, that's very special to our family. And then on my father's side, Mom and, uh, other, many others in our family, um, have discovered just incredible history, and she just presented to her PEO group on my great-grandfather, Harry Morris, who was an immigrant who came over, um, and was in New York during, um, the first part of the, um, 20th century, during kind of those slum years.</p>
<p></p>
<p>Children, you know, were being abandoned. Parents couldn't afford to keep them. And my grandfather, Harry, was put into an orphanage with the promise, his parents said, or his mother said, "I will come back and get him. I will come back and get him." And by the time she came back, had saved up enough money and got back on her feet, she still had her daughter, he was gone, and he was placed on the orphan train.</p>
<p></p>
<p>Many, many, many children, thousands of children, were sent out to the Midwest under the premise that the West n- needed children. You know, there were families that could take them. The Christian Aid Society had shipped them west, and he was on that train and went out And was adopted by a family. Um, and he was put basically in indentured servitude, and, um, was abused and malnutritious and- </p>
<p></p>
<p>Mm</p>
<p></p>
<p>had just this incredible childhood, and escaped by the help of a neighbor. </p>
<p></p>
<p>Wow. </p>
<p></p>
<p>And my grandpa, great-grandpa Harry, went on to have this incredible life. Joined the military at 17, was a hard worker, very industrious. Um, came back to Nebraska and had nine children, all w- wonderfully successful, all loved each other.</p>
<p></p>
<p>Our family is very close on that side, which I think is just a testament to the type of people that they are and, and that we are. We all like each other. We all still get together. But he went on to have this incredible journalism, um, career. Um, he was kind of known to be the mayor of southeast Nebraska.</p>
<p></p>
<p>There's now a statue at the Orphan Train Museum in Kansas in his honor. Um, there have been books written about him. He's just, he is like the American dream because he- Wow, </p>
<p></p>
<p>what a story ... </p>
<p></p>
<p>he just was such a likable person that n- remembered everybody's name and knew how to sell papers. And, um, yeah, he just, he's quite the inspiration.</p>
<p></p>
<p>So we, we hold, uh, Harry in very high regard, um, for such a s- tough start in life. And the most important thing to that story is that his mother did eventually found, find him, like decades later. They were reunited. Um, he met his sister. Um, and just an incredible story. But what I found out a few days after that presentation that my mother gave was that we were sitting in the room, and all...</p>
<p></p>
<p>There were like, out of 30 women there, there were like six or seven, including my mother and myself, who were all wearing black and white stripes that day, all black and white stripes. And I looked around the room and like, it was, it was noticeable, and I thought, "Why are there so many black and white stripes?"</p>
<p></p>
<p>And my mother had told this story of how the family had escaped this part of Russia to come to New York, and I didn't realize that, um, we were, we were Russian. Um, I did not know that part of the story. It was eventually occupied by the Germans. It is now Germany. But The children of the town that my family escaped as Jewish Americans, I guess I never said that part of the story, but Jewish Americans, was raised, uh, Methodist, um, in Nebraska and we're still Methodist to this day.</p>
<p></p>
<p>All of the children in that town were walked into a forest and murdered by the Germans- Ugh ... about four years after my family escaped. </p>
<p></p>
<p>Wow. </p>
<p></p>
<p>And I could not help but think the irony that we all decided to wear black and white stripes on this random presentation day, and, you know, it, it, it just stuck with me, so I went to, like, ChatGPT and looked up black and white.</p>
<p></p>
<p>You know, I, I, or I said, "Jewish people in this town, World War II." Sure. I think that was my... Like, what happened in that town? And that's the history that pulled up. There are sto- there are pictures of the children being marched into the forest that I saw, and it's just an incredible story of courage to go to America.</p>
<p></p>
<p>Yeah. So- Ab- absolutely. The, the, all the stories of people coming here, such great courage in, in making that trip. But it w- that's not guaranteed. That takes on risk. I s- I so appreciate you sharing both sides of your family. Fascinating history and just remarkable stories, and I can, I can totally see how you have such admiration f- for Harry and just, like, the ripple effect he has created with- </p>
<p></p>
<p>Mm-hmm</p>
<p></p>
<p>with how he showed up for his life and for the people around him. So, um, thank you so much, Maggie, for sharing that. That's awesome. </p>
<p></p>
<p>Thank you for asking. </p>
<p></p>
<p>Yeah. So today it's hard to escape or to go, go through any day without some type of story around AI. Mm-hmm. You know, from the camp of it's, it will free us to the camp that it will destroy us, and then everything in between.</p>
<p></p>
<p>So in your work or just your personal take on it, do you have a stance current day as it relates to AI? </p>
<p></p>
<p>I don't have a stance on AI. I see it as a, um, amplifier in our work at this point. I think that it is making us a more productive society. I think that there are concerns about where it goes. As a mother, I am, you know, I have these questions.</p>
<p></p>
<p>Well, what will my children learn? What will my children do? It's all moving so fast. Um, so I think that from the perspective of a mother, I have probably more anxiety around it. From the perspective as a professional, I'm excited by it, and I just hope that it becomes an accelerant and not a de- deterrent </p>
<p></p>
<p>Yeah, I hear you on that.</p>
<p></p>
<p>I think my biggest worry is just the speed- </p>
<p></p>
<p>Yes ... </p>
<p></p>
<p>that it's coming towards us, and are we capable of dealing with how quickly it's evolving and how quickly it's coming? Can we- </p>
<p></p>
<p>Well, and as you... Yeah. And as you know- Yeah ... I work in government or with governments, and we move slow. </p>
<p></p>
<p>Well, </p>
<p></p>
<p>we do. Governments move-- I work in state policymaking.</p>
<p></p>
<p>The federal government thinks we move too fast. </p>
<p></p>
<p>Yeah. </p>
<p></p>
<p>Um, you know, we can pass bills in a year or two, um, but it, it's still so rapid that government- Uh-huh ... does move slow. And even on the 50-state side, um, you know, those are the big questions in our space right now, is how to address this evolving technology.</p>
<p></p>
<p>Yeah. One question I've been asking folks, knowing that at any point in our history things are not always perfect across the board. There's, there's ragged edges and there's things that need to be addressed. Uh, e- and there can be a menu that people can choose from. If there, is there something that you would like to see us w- work on to help us heal or come, come together, be connected?</p>
<p></p>
<p>Uh, maybe not in a perfect way, but in a meaningful first step. As you know, I use the Japanese art form o- of Kintsugi as a metaphor for this series. S- you know, acknowledging that, you know, we all have blemishes and wrinkles and gray hairs and scars. Um, and then we can, we can work on them and not hide them, but they're actually illustrations of our strength and resilience.</p>
<p></p>
<p>So I didn't know what comes to mind for you in terms of, like, working on something that could make a meaningful difference in helping us, uh, become more connected, if you will. </p>
<p></p>
<p>Yes. I think Ben Sasse recently, you know, the former US senator who's now- Yeah ... facing pancreatic cancer, has had some incredible thought leadership in this space in recent months.</p>
<p></p>
<p>And he has talked about the lack of local community So if you are not, if you do not know your neighbor or if your children don't know their cousins, you have no stickiness. And if you have no stickiness, you have no connectivity. And I think that if we can really regrow, and of course things evolved since the pandemic, we lost some of our community.</p>
<p></p>
<p>There needs to be intentionality around local community, because if you don't have local community, you do not, you can't hold your local representation to account, you don't have good ideas coming from others. So if I could do anything, it would be to regrow local community. I think a lot of parents, um, you know, are concerned about safety.</p>
<p></p>
<p>You know, I think that we've had a lot of, of gun issues in this country, so large gatherings, you know, people don't gather in large, um, spaces as much as they used to. I get so excited when I do see a successful large event get pulled off and, and the... You know, a Taylor Swift concert. I mean, people are still high from those.</p>
<p></p>
<p>Like- Absolutely. Yes ... shared, shared experience is so important to, to humanity. But people have such high anxiety based on what we've been through with the pandemic and, and, um, uh, violence and that sort of thing. So if I could wave a magic wand, it was, it would p- be ways to build local community again.</p>
<p></p>
<p>Yeah, I hear you. As a father of two Swifties I will echo and validate the vibe and the energy- ... that comes off of going to a Taylor Swift concert. And as I record this, I'm right outside of New York City, so New York is all abuzz around their beloved New York Knicks. So it, it really has brought the city of New York- Mm-hmm</p>
<p></p>
<p>together, and, uh, uh, at least from my perspective, like nothing else, uh, since 9/11, right? Yep. It's like, that was a, that was a moment, obviously a very horrific situation, that brought the city together, and the, the Knicks are doing it now. So we'll see how the rest of- That's </p>
<p></p>
<p>why sports and culture is so important- Yes, yeah</p>
<p></p>
<p>because it connects. It connects. Yeah, </p>
<p></p>
<p>it does. </p>
<p></p>
<p>Yeah. If you like the, if you like the same musician, it doesn't really matter if you're a Democrat or Republican, you're gonna, you're gonna bond over something shared. And that's why culture and arts and sports are so important. Um, and when we think about AI, I was talking to a fellow parent about this this weekend, it's the arts that may remain some of our most human-forward, um, ways of, of working, living, that keep, keep us connected.</p>
<p></p>
<p>Hmm. Yeah, I hear you on that. I also appreciate you, you mentioned, um, uh, Ben and his work and just his cour- you know, his courage sharing his battle with his cancer and just, well, the technology behind his treatment, and the fact that he's still with us. And, and his messages that I've heard many a interview from, with him- Mm-hmm</p>
<p></p>
<p>and I think what he's, he's sharing right now, hopefully to leave a ripple effect long after he's gone, uh, is, is worth listening to- Mm ... regardless of what state you happen to live in, so. Uh, so we'll finish up here with a couple fun questions. Since we're celebrating a birthday, generally speaking, people have cake.</p>
<p></p>
<p>Mm-hmm. </p>
<p></p>
<p>So the question, Maggie, to you is what kind of cake are you serving for America's 250th? And as we blow out 250 candles, what's your wish for the country? </p>
<p></p>
<p>Um, my favorite cake is pistachios from Martine's Bakery here in Lexington, Kentucky. Oh. We have it every time we have cake, much to the chagrin of my husband.</p>
<p></p>
<p>That, that sounds pretty delicious, and it's the first pistachio reference I've gotten on this series, so- </p>
<p></p>
<p>It is the best ... </p>
<p></p>
<p>I might have to check that out. </p>
<p></p>
<p>And thankfully, we have a lot of July birthdays in our family, so we'll probably have pistachio cake on July 4th. </p>
<p></p>
<p>All right. That works. </p>
<p></p>
<p>Um, if I could make a wish for the country, it would be for everyone to go back to our founding principles of Freedom, liberty, pursuit of happiness.</p>
<p></p>
<p>Let us not be so focused on the next thing. We are all so busy that we're not really enjoying the freedom that we in- that we so just inherently have. So I would, I would encourage my fellow Americans to stop and pause and give thanks for the country that they get to live in, and to enjoy their time in it a little bit more.</p>
<p></p>
<p>Great wish. Great wish. As I would say, take a moment to pause, take a breath, and reflect on what you have. So in this series, I've been asking the person I chat- chatted with just prior to you a question, uh, and then you get to ask a question of the next person I chat with. So the question from Sarah from Kansas is this one.</p>
<p></p>
<p>Oh, love it. I'm a native </p>
<p></p>
<p>Kansan. Yeah, I know. I love that you have two Kansans consecutive. Rock Chalk, Rock- Rock Chalk Jayhawks. Yeah, absolutely. So her question i- is around the justice system here in the country. </p>
<p></p>
<p>Mm-hmm. </p>
<p></p>
<p>Where... Well, what do you think is working currently within the justice system? </p>
<p></p>
<p>I think, and it's interesting, I was just with Leader McConnell, um, this past weekend in Virginia, and we were reflecting on his incredible, um, service in the Senate, the longest serving, um, Senate leader in history, and his legacy is based on his work in the judiciary, putting so many federal judges and Supreme Court justices, um, on the bench.</p>
<p></p>
<p>And what I think, and, and my, my, um, uh, political background is in Republican politics even though I've spent much of my career in non-partisan work. Um, his legacy will be, will be in the judiciary. It has been changed over a lot in the past 10 years. But what I think I appreciate most is that even if you've got a number of conservative justices on the bench, um, on the federal bench- Right now, they are still acting judiciously.</p>
<p></p>
<p>There are federal judges who would be painted conservative who are checking the president on his powers, um, that are approaching their work in the way that we would all expect them to. I, I think that they are... They have a really hard job right now making sure that we are adhering to the rule of law. I would not wish it on them.</p>
<p></p>
<p>I, I-- It makes me so sad how many judges have been targeted by violence. One of my dearest friends and my lifelong mentor is a federal judge who, um, has, has been, uh, on the receiving end of, of violent, um, threats, and I so respect the work that they're doing. It's tough work. They're doing it in the best way that they can, and I, I am proud that, you know, as we are trying to keep the rule of law, that, that the conservative justices that have been appointed are still looking at, at it in a non-partisan lens.</p>
<p></p>
<p>I like that. Thanks for sharing that. What question do you have for the next person I speak with? </p>
<p></p>
<p>I think we'll, we'll go back to, um During the pandemic years, the Zoom years, the f- the OGs of the Zoom years, one of my favorite icebreakers on the Zooms was if you, um, if you could pick a state in which you could live in that is not the one that you currently live in, which state would that be and why?</p>
<p></p>
<p>I like that question. </p>
<p></p>
<p>Where would, where would you live? </p>
<p></p>
<p>Well, I would say what popped up immediately would be Illinois because it's sort of in between where my youngest daughter lives in Columbus, Ohio, and my oldest daughter lives in Denver, Colorado. And- </p>
<p></p>
<p>And that is such a cyclist response because- Yeah</p>
<p></p>
<p>you're thinking about how to cycle to both. </p>
<p></p>
<p>How to cycle to both. I'm also thinking about a major airport, and I am a life, uh, lifetime status member of United Airlines. Yep. And so I have O'Hare, so I can go to Chicago O'Hare and fly to Columbus and fly to Denver. So- </p>
<p></p>
<p>And have Directs ... </p>
<p></p>
<p>uh, I have Directs, yes.</p>
<p></p>
<p>Uh, so that's, that is my response. Although at my age, I am growing tired of really brutal winters. </p>
<p></p>
<p>I know. </p>
<p></p>
<p>I, I, I'm not, I'm not willing or ready... Actually, I'm not ready nor willing and never will be to go way down south into say, Arizona and Florida because if I go down there, I'll melt. I have Irish DNA. I don't, I don't do well when it gets super hot.</p>
<p></p>
<p>So I'm not gonna go down there, but I gotta find a place where the weather is a little bit more moderate. And I'm not, yeah, I'm getting not so crazy about some brutal winters. So Chicago may not be it, but as far as proximity to my daughters- Yeah ... I think that might be a good selection </p>
<p></p>
<p>I was gonna say, you're probably the only person over 40 that chose somewhere colder.</p>
<p></p>
<p>Probably. So wh- where, where would you go? </p>
<p></p>
<p>I always answered Virginia, which is ironic 'cause we were there last weekend. Yeah. I, I mean, I just... The history of that commonwealth, it's a bigger state than you would think. You've got the water on one end, you've got the mountains on another, and you just, you can walk back in time.</p>
<p></p>
<p>I mean, if you go to the northern neck of Virginia, I mean, you, it's a destination. There's one way in, one way out. </p>
<p></p>
<p>Mm-hmm. </p>
<p></p>
<p>But you are walking back to 1500. </p>
<p></p>
<p>Absolutely. It's amazing. Yeah, it's so great history. I was down in the Shenandoah Valley last month, went down to do a talk, and it was like going back home since I went to college down there.</p>
<p></p>
<p>It's, it always feels... It, we, it could be six months or six years since the last time I went down. Every time I go down, it, it feels like, oh yeah, this feels, this feels familiar, feels safe. Mm-hmm. It feels, yeah, it feels like a second home. So who knows? Yeah. It could be Virginia. But my wife definitely has a big vote in this whole conversation about where we go next.</p>
<p></p>
<p>So we'll, uh, we'll see how this conversation ends up. So Maggie, thanks for joining me on this series, and the work that you're doing, and the ripple effect you're putting into the world, and helping us form a more perfectly imperfect union. So I appreciate you, and again, thanks for being here. </p>
<p></p>
<p>Thank you, Michael.</p>
<p></p>
<p>It was an honor.</p>
<p></p>
<p>I appreciated that Maggie brought up the importance of travel in opening up our aperture and shaping our perspectives. Other people have brought it up in this series, and I think when we get to the end, that might be a real takeaway. If possible, I would strongly encourage people to travel, travel in this country, travel outside the country.</p>
<p></p>
<p>When we travel outside our normal grooves, we see things differently, and I think there's real value in that. We start to see each other in each other's stories. And her question went retro back to the early days of Zoom and the pandemic. At least for right now, I'm gonna stick with my answer of Chicago and Illinois.</p>
<p></p>
<p>Although I love the state of Oregon, and I loved the time we spent in Idaho, Montana, and Wyoming when I rode my bike across the country. Truth be told, there's a lot of places I would love to live. I think I need to hit the lotto to be able to afford all those different choices out there. But I will stand firm on the fact that you will not see me living in Florida or Arizona.</p>
<p></p>
<p>Way too hot for me. So how about you? Where would you live if you could live anywhere in the US but you can't live in your current state? Let me know. Love to hear your answer. And as always, thanks for being here, thanks for listening, and helping us create a more perfectly imperfect union. And I hope you'll check out the next episode of Whole Again.</p>
<p></p>
<p>And don't forget to celebrate your scars as golden symbols of your strength and resilience. And don't forget to have fun storming the castle.</p>
<p></p>
<p>And if you wish to learn more about creating beautiful ripples and how to prevent a bad moment from turning into a bad day, please visit my website, michaelobrienshift.com, and sign up for my newsletter called The Ripple Effect. And join us each Monday, Wednesday, and Friday here at Whole Again, and discover how you can heal, grow, and become more resilient, and celebrate our scars as golden symbols of strength and resilience.</p>
<p></p>
<p>Until then, remember, you can always come back to your breath. You've got this, and we've got you.</p>
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