What does Heather Wagner do professionally?

She runs a nonprofit in DC, works in the anti-human trafficking space, and has also been a minister and executive coach.

How has Heather Wagner's view of America changed over time?

Her views shifted from believing as a girl near Seneca Falls that she could change the world to now seeing America's story as somewhat tragic, though she still holds hope for it.

What is the 'A Perfectly Imperfect Union' series about?

It features conversations with everyday people reflecting on America at 250 years old, airing Tuesdays, Thursdays, and Saturdays between May and October.

A Perfectly Imperfect Union: Reflecting on America 250 with Heather Wagner

The Whole Again Podcast: Mindfulness and Resilience through Kinstugi Wisdom airs every Monday, Wednesday and Friday with Pause Breathe Reflect Microdose Meditations, Growth Mindset and Mindfulness Tips, to help us transform our scars into healing and resilience.

And between May and October, I'm sharing a new series I'm calling: A Perfectly Imperfect Union. It's about connecting with every day folks as they reflect on America at 250. Conversations will air every Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday.

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In the latest episode of A Perfectly Imperfect Union, we travel to Maryland and sit down with Heather Wagner.

She runs a nonprofit in DC, works in the anti-human trafficking space, and identifies openly as an autistic ADHD leader raising two neurodivergent kids. She's also been a minister, an executive coach, and a "rail fan mom" chasing trains with her son across Maryland.

Heather shares that her views of America have shifted across different seasons of her life, from the girl who grew up near Seneca Falls believing she could change the world, to someone who now sees the country's story as a bit of a tragedy, one she still holds hope for.

She shares a vivid image from a trip to Italy, sitting near the Colosseum and realizing America is like a petulant teenager, sure it has all the answers but still nowhere near fully grown.

Her prescription for healing isn't complicated. Stop looking for difference. Start anchoring into what we all actually share: grief, love, fear, the wish to be seen and valued.

To discover more about Heather, please use this link to connect on LinkedIn.

And Heather's question for you and our next guest is: If you could sit down and have coffee with one person, past, present, or future, who would it be?

Share your thoughts in the comments and share this episode with one of your neighbors.

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With Whole Again: Mindfulness and Resilience through Kintsugi Wisdom, listeners explore mindfulness and resilience through personal stories of trauma, scars, and injury while learning to overcome, imposter syndrome, self-doubt, and perfectionism with self-compassion, self-love, and self-worth. Through insightful discussions on building resilience, fitness, and stress management, as well as mindfulness practices and digital wellness, the show offers practical tools such as breathwork, micro-dose meditation, grounding techniques, visualization, and daily affirmations for anxiety relief and stress reduction. Inspired by the art of kintsugi, the podcast embodies healing as a transformative process, encouraging a shift in perspective from worry and overwhelm to gratitude and personal growth. By exploring the mind-body connection, micro-dosing strategies for emotional well-being, and

Hey there. It's Michael. Welcome to Whole Again, the show that's here in support of you creating a meaningful life and the person you're becoming. And I'm excited to share a new series with you that will air this summer as America turns 250 years old, which is still pretty young relative to many other countries across this big blue marble that we all share.

The series is called A Perfectly Imperfect Union. In 2022, I rode my bike across America from Astoria, Oregon to the Lincoln Memorial. My wife drove our RV and she had two co-pilots, Jester and Hope, two springer spaniels And when we did it, America was coming out of the pandemic and we were hurting.

Hurting from things that had happened prior to the pandemic, of course, going through what we all went through. And at that time, and this is something I still believe today, is that we were entering an inflection point. An inflection point for us to hopefully pause, breathe, and reflect on who we wish to become as individuals, as communities, and as a country.

As I pedaled across America, I wanted to share America's beauty with others, her natural beauty and the beauty of her people. And I also wanted to share where we were hurting As America turns 250, I believe Kintsugi, which is something we use as a metaphor here at Whole Again, is a perfect metaphor for where we are as a country.

There's so much beauty to celebrate, and we can also acknowledge that parts of us feel broken or are broken. But we can find a way to come back together, just like Kintsugi teaches us. And when we do, we don't try to erase or cover up where we have scars or blemishes. We highlight them in gold, and we celebrate them as symbols of our strength and resilience.

Kintsugi is called the golden repair, and in essence, we can see beauty in something that's perfectly imperfect. During this series, I plan to speak to at least two people in each state and the District of Columbia, so 102 conversations with real folk, as I like to say. We're gonna let the celebrities and the big influencers have their day somewhere else, but here I wanna reach out and talk to real people and listen to their reflections as they think about America turning 250 years old.

And my hope is, is that you'll tune in to at least one, if not all 102, 'cause my theory going into this is that you'll hear different perspectives. Some may be aligned with yours, others may not. But my hope is that you hear the goodness in your fellow citizens and realize, as Maya Angelou shared with us, "We are more alike, my friends, than we are unalike."

We are more alike, my friends, than we are unalike. I've had the privilege of traveling all over the world and all over this country, and this belief is something that I hold deep inside of me. So yes, I do believe that we are more alike, my friends, than we are unalike. So if you're ready to get to know one of your perfectly imperfect neighbors, just like all of us, take a healthy breath in and a slow releasing breath out and get to know Heather Wagner

Heather, so good to see you. Thanks for joining me here on A Perfectly Imperfect Union. How the heck are you today? 

I am great today, thank you. 

Very cool. So for those that don't know you, can you take a moment to introduce yourself? And also, uh, what state are you currently living in? 

Yeah. Um, so I am in-- I live in Maryland, right outside Washington, DC.

Um, I've lived here for about 12 years now. Um, originally from New York. You'll never take New York out of this girl. Um, but, um, a little bit about me. Gosh, I, I have lived many lives. It's kind of a running joke in my family. Um, I currently run a nonprofit in DC. I'm, um, an au- I identify very openly as an autistic ADHD leader who supports, uh, neurodivergent folks.

I rai- I'm raising two neurodivergent children who are brilliant. Um, and I think, you know, I've I don't know. I'm a minister. Uh, I was an executive leadership coach for over a decade. I ran a consultancy. Um, and now I work in the anti-trafficking, anti-human trafficking space, which has been, um, one of the most interesting, rewarding, challenging personal growth opportunities of my life.

And now I don't know, uh, that I could do anything different at this point. Yeah. So, yeah. 

Yeah, once you see it, you realize, oh, there's so much work to be done here in this space. 

Yeah. 

And I know a, I know a little bit more than the average bear because my youngest daughter, her first job out of college was in this space.

She joined a nonprofit out in Columbus, Ohio. 

Hmm. 

Uh, unfortunately, the government shutdown made the grant, um, like, uh, cause some issues. That's the nonprofit world. Yes. So but she, she really educated in that, in that space. And so, uh, so I hear like y- there's a whole bunch going on, which is great. It's a huge ripple effect.

Yeah. And I love the fact that we have New York ties. Yeah. I- so are, are you a Finger Lakes gal? 

I am a Finger Lakes gal. 

All right. I'm a Rochester guy. Oh. So. Okay. Yeah. So, so we have a little bit of a connection there, so. Yeah. 

Yeah, I grew up 

in Geneva. 

Yeah. So that's- 

So. All right. Cool. Yeah. All right. Well, like Midwest, mid to western New York- Yeah

upstate New York, however you wanna define it, good people for those that don't know. But we'll focus in, we'll fo- focus in on Maryland, 'cause I used to live down in DC- 

Oh ... 

uh, as well. So in DC and then in Virginia. Yeah. Uh, and so for those that don't know much about Maryland, 'cause we live in a big country- Yes

and not everyone's gone to every state, so what's something really cool about Maryland that maybe people don't know about? 

Well, I'm gonna quote something that now my brain is like, "You should Google this before you quote it." But when I first moved- I think I remember reading that Maryland has more protected land per capita than any other state, which I thought was- 

Oh

odd because Maryland's not a very big state. So even if that's not true, and I just made that up There is so much nature here. Um, there's so many, like, like if you know anything about Rock Creek Park, it goes from DC all the way up. Like, I live in Olney, uh, so it- 

Okay ... 

tippy top of Rock Creek Park. Um, but there's waterfalls and rivers and, um, just so much history here too, given, you know, I think the Northeast in general because of our country has so much history here, and I love history.

Um, and my son, um, who I mentioned is neurodivergent, is a huge train enthusiast Um, so I joke and say, "I'm not a soccer mom, I'm a rail fan mom." 

Okay. I like it. I love 

it. Chase trains. But this area of Maryland has so many interesting train lines and all of these historic train... And so I am constantly driving all over Maryland to catch trains with my son, who has a, a YouTube channel full of trains, so.

Oh, wow, that's so awesome. I'm a big train fan myself. I had a model railroad when I was a kid, and I, as a cyclist now, I love, uh, rails that have turned into trails. Yes ... but you, you still have some of the, the old artifacts of the railroad lines. Yeah. So you see tracks or you see some train cars, and I'm like, "Oh, that's so cool."

And I think you, I think you might be right with the protected land of Maryland because you have the Chesapeake Bay area. Yep. That is widely- Massively 

protected, yeah ... 

massively protected. And the, I think a really cool thing about Maryland is that you can be in, on the Eastern Shore, on the beach doing the thing, doing the boardwalk, but then you can go all the way out west to Cumberland- 

Yep

and get a whole, like, different, like, West Virginia- 

Yep ... 

in Appalachia kind of vibe. Yep. It's, um- 

And then you can go two hours to the Appalachian Trail down near, like, La-Ray and, like- Yes ... maybe Charlottesville. You, you're two minutes from... Oh, two minute. Two hours from Philly, four hours from New York, couple hours from North Carolina.

It's just such a great spot, and there's so much ability- Yeah ... to, like, travel and be in all kinds of places. 

Absolutely. Yeah, 

you got- Well, and the w- the weather's great too. It's mu- The weather, the wea'- It's muggy. 

It's mu- it's humid. It's muggy, 

but, like- Yeah ... you get just enough snow to get a taste, but not so much you're miserable- 

Not, not

like Finger Lakes. 

Yeah. 

So. 

Yeah. The, as w- we live it up here in New Jersey now where I am, it's like this past winter was, like, a little too much snow. It's just like I like a little bit, give me some of that holiday cheer- Exactly ... you know, white Christmas. But, you know, by the time March comes, like, okay, let's move it along.

Yeah. Let's get some flowers. Yeah. All that good stuff like that. 

Yeah. 

So let's say you're, um, out there somewhere in the great state of Maryland, you're with some friends, and they ask you, "Hey, Heather, what does America mean to you?" How do you respond to that, like, big question? 

It, it is a big question, and, um- It's a, it's a question if you asked me at different seasons of my life, I would've responded differently.

Um, I think when I was younger I, uh, growing up in the Finger Lakes, which I right near Women's Hall of Fame, Seneca Falls- Sure, yes ... the home of women's rights. So I literally, as a woman, grew up with this history surrounding me, and it emboldened me as a woman to be like, "Yes, we can fight for our rights here.

We can, um, make change." And I remember being young and not really understanding and being like, "I'm gonna grow up and be a philanthropist, and I'm gonna do good in the world," not understanding, like, you need money to be a philanthropist, or you need to work in nonprofits like I do now. And I was very, um... I, I just, I loved our country.

And then I think I grew up, and I traveled to other countries and, you know, it is very rural, white America where I grew up. Um, and so learning about other cultures, learning about colonization, understanding, and especially in the work I do now, the systems of oppression and, you know, who gets trafficked in our world and, um, even the current state of our union.

I think now America, to me, is a little bit of a tragedy story, if I'm gonna be honest. Um, I am hopeful that this is a season. And, you know, history repeats itself, and we go through these seasons, and there's always the swing back to what is good and what is true. And so I'm riding that wave right now. Um, but yeah, I think it's meant something different to me at, at different times in my life.

Yeah, I hear in your answer it's, uh, you know, and other people have shared this as well, it's, it's a bit of a messy project, this thing called America. 

Yeah. 

And there are periods of time where we get it right, and there are period- uh, we seem to get it right, like we feel we are getting it right, and there are times where we overcorrect or overswing in one direction or another- 

Yeah

and lose ourselves in whatever seems to be grabbing our attention at the moment. 

Yeah. 

And then you have hope that we can steer our way back to what can make us connected again and together again, even if we disagree. 

Yeah. 

You know, it's just that we... You know, 'cause when we do travel, I, I, like you, I didn't travel much as a kid.

Right. 

You know, I w- I, I didn't get my passport until I got married. 

Same. 

Uh, so- Yeah And then you, you travel and you're like, "Oh, okay." Y- your aperture widens and you're like, you, you see, you see how much we have in common g- just globally with all, all of our global citizens. Yeah. And you can also appreciate what we have here.

Yeah. 

And you can also... Some of the pain I hear is, like, the pain in not living into our pot- full potential. 

Yeah. 

Like, we, we, we could, we could do a lot more, so yeah, so I, I, I feel that from you. 

I, um, when I first traveled out of the country, I had the great privilege of tra- I was a, uh, a nanny in one of my many lifetimes.

Um, and I got to travel with this extremely wealthy family to Italy, and I highly recommend if you ever have a chance to do it that way. It is quite 

glorious. It's not a bad way of going, yeah. 

Um, whole different way of traveling. Yes. Um, but I remember sitting at this cafe next to the Colosseum, drinking coffee and, you know, sitting with the little girl I was taking care of, and I had this existential experience of like Oh, like America's almost like this petulant teenager in the greater global landscape of like, "We know everything.

We don't need to hear from you." Like, "W- we got it all together," um, when in, in fact, we're quite self-destructive and don't fully have our prefrontal cortex developed yet. Um, and I, and I just... It was just this weird metaphor that I kinda came up with, and it just helped me understand, like from a developmental standpoint, like why America's still struggling.

And it's like, "Oh, we haven't had hundreds of years to figure this out." 

Yeah, thousands of years, right? You know, 

so- Oh, yeah, thousands after thousands. I'm sorry. Yeah. Thousands of years- 

Yeah ... to figure this out. Yeah, so I love that you said that 'cause I recently wrote a blog post and I described America as a teenager.

I actually have a pencil sketch in my bike room of the Roman Colosseum. 

Oh. 

I, I... 'Cause even though there was, like a lot of, like horror that happened in that building- 

Yeah ... 

as a structure, it's pretty amazing for the time it was built, and obviously it was built with, like slave labor, and there, there's a whole, there's a whole di- There's 

a whole history there, yeah.

There's a whole, you know, the dichotomy with it. But so to your point about being a teenager, in some ways we're a petulant teenage boy that thinks he knows all the answers, and we're also a very concerned, anxious teenage girl in comparison, you know? Yeah. And we still haven't, uh, figured it out compared to how old some other countries are.

So- 

Yeah ... 

my next question for you is, uh, is w- when do you feel most connected to your fellow neighbor or fellow American, even, even those that you might disagree with? Are, are there times where you, in this period that we, we both share- Yeah ... where you feel connected with your fellow neighbor? 

I think that word neighbor You know, in the literal sense- Mm-hmm

what I find interesting is, I have a home I bought recently in, um, in, in a suburb, and my particular plot of land happens to be a half an acre, which in the suburbs is, like, unheard of, especially outside DC. And so, like, my neighbors are literally way far, whereas every other house on the street, the neighbors are, like- 

Right there

and I really liked that because being in a highly dense area, you almost need more space sometimes. So my l- my literal neighbors, I don't feel overly connected to because I'm like- 

Sure ... "

I need my space." But, um, I think I feel most connected when we come together in community in service, whatever that looks like.

Oh, sure. Yeah. 

Is it, um, coming to... Uh, it's funny. A lot of people come together to protest on the corner, all different types of things, and just driving by and the honking and the unity of that right to protest, you know? Sure. Or when I've taken my kids down to the mall for one of the big marches, or even doing community service, um, you know, locally, cleaning up litter or stuff like that.

I think when we're coming together for common good, I don't think your ideologies or your religious beliefs or even your demographic background matters. You're there to serve. Uh, and I think that's, that's when I feel most connected. 

Yeah. I like that answer. Like that answer. So as you might know, I use the Japanese art form of Kintsugi as a metaphor for my general podcast but also this series where we take pottery that's broken, we put it back together.

We highlight the scars, the, the fractures in gold, and they become symbols of our resilience and strength. So we don't hide from them. We, we actually celebrate them. We highlight them. 

Yeah. 

So if you could take one thing, and maybe it's not a perfect solve, but it's a meaningful first step to help us feel more connected or help us heal and grow, what would it be?

I think the thing that's going to help us grow and reconnect is To stop seeing our differences and start seeing our shared humanity. 

Mm. 

We all grieve. We all love. We all fear. We all want what's best for our families. We all want a livable wage and financial freedom. We all want the freedom to practice our beliefs however we want.

Um, we all wanna be seen and loved and valued. And if we can anchor into that shared humanity, I think we can start to heal and repair. But unfortunately, our brains are wired to find difference. And as long as we continue to use that part of our brain that's that more, you know, uh, fear-based, you know, tribal, where do I-- where am I safe?

If we're looking for safety first, then we're gonna continue to see the other in each other and not the shared humanity. 

Yeah. I love that answer. Earlier, you referenced when we were talking about teenagers, the prefrontal cortex of our brain. So what you- I do a lot of neuroscience in my coaching. Yeah. S- sure.

So what I heard though in your, your answer is that in this period of time, we're basically allowing our limbic or our reptilian brain, which is, "Hey, are we dead or alive? Are we safe or in harm's way?" 

Yes. 

To rule our behavior. What we could be doing more of is tapping into our prefrontal cortex that gives us, us humans a chance to reason and think and, and override the limbic system and say, "Each day, I'm gonna look for, um, where I can help serve my fellow neighbor, even if I don't agree with him or her."

So yeah. So we'll, we'll end here. Uh, what I've been doing is asking the people before-- the person before you if they have a question for you. I spoke to Rubina in Maui. She had the coolest location of anyone I've interviewed, no offense to anyone else's place. But sh- ... she was she was outside, and the Pacific Ocean was in the background.

So she has a two-part question. The first part is, "Are you breathing deeply?" And the second part is, "If you could create a bumper sticker, what would you put on your bumper sticker?" 

So I breathe deeply every day when I meditate I don't know if I'm breathing deeply the rest of the day. 

Okay. 

That's fair. Um, so I try to at least for 15 minutes a day.

That's ... Hey, that works. Um, yeah. It's, it's, it's better than no minutes. 

It's better than none, right? Um, and if I was gonna have a bumper sticker, I think it would be "Love deeply." 

That's great. What question do you have for the next guest on the series? 

Um, if there was one person, past, present or future, that you could sit down and have coffee with, who would it be?

Ah. All right. I will ask our next person on our series that very question. That's a good one. I love it. Heather, thanks so much for joining me here, and the ripple effect that you're putting into the world, it's fantastic and, uh, I appreciate sitting down with you and having a nice conversation. So, uh, thank you.

Thanks for having me. It's been great.

I love people like Heather who have done so many different roles in their lives. Really speaks to our ability to reinvent ourselves. So absolutely love it. I also love her question. Who would you sit down with over a cup of tea or a nice latte? I think as it relates to this series, I might choose one of the Founding Fathers, maybe Thomas Jefferson, and get their perspective of how they see America at 250.

But I'd love to know who you would sit down with. Let me know in the comments. And as always, thanks for being here and listening in. I hope you'll check out the next episode of Whole Again and continue to check out our conversations here in this series, A Perfectly Imperfect Union. But until then, let's remember to celebrate our scars as golden symbols of our strength and resilience, and don't forget to have fun storming the castle.

And if you wish to learn more about creating beautiful ripples and how to prevent a bad moment from turning into a bad day, please visit my website, michaelobrienshift.com, and sign up for my newsletter called The Ripple Effect. And join us each Monday, Wednesday, and Friday here at Whole Again, and discover how you can heal, grow, and become more resilient, and celebrate our scars as golden symbols of strength and resilience.

Until then, remember, you can always come back to your breath. You've got this, and

A Perfectly Imperfect Union: Reflecting on America 250 with Heather Wagner

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