A Perfectly Imperfect Union: Reflecting on America 250 with Bill Jollie

The Whole Again Podcast: Mindfulness and Resilience through Kinstugi Wisdom airs every Monday, Wednesday and Friday with Pause Breathe Reflect Microdose Meditations, Growth Mindset and Mindfulness Tips, to help us transform our scars into healing and resilience.

And between May and October, I'm sharing a new series I'm calling: A Perfectly Imperfect Union. It's about connecting with every day folks as they reflect on America at 250. Conversations will air every Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday.

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What are you doing to make someone else's life better?

That's the question at the heart of this conversation with Bill Jollie, a 14-year leukemia survivor, pharma professional, and founder of Interrupt Hunger.

In this episode of A Perfectly Imperfect Union, Bill shares how his own cancer battle reshaped his view of the healthcare system, why he thinks AI will amplify who we already are rather than change us, and why that means we need to get serious about being kind to each other.

He also shares how serving in the Marines, marriage, and fatherhood shaped his perspective.

If you've ever wondered whether kindness is still a strategy worth betting on, this conversation makes the case.

Bill's question for you and our next guess is:

What are you doing to make someone else's life better?

Share your thoughts in the comments and share this episode with someone you love.

You can discover more about Bill via his website.

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With Whole Again: Mindfulness and Resilience through Kintsugi Wisdom, listeners explore mindfulness and resilience through personal stories of trauma, scars, and injury while learning to overcome, imposter syndrome, self-doubt, and perfectionism with self-compassion, self-love, and self-worth. Through insightful discussions on building resilience, fitness, and stress management, as well as mindfulness practices and digital wellness, the show offers practical tools such as breathwork, micro-dose meditation, grounding techniques, visualization, and daily affirmations for anxiety relief and stress reduction. Inspired by the art of kintsugi, the podcast embodies healing as a transformative process, encouraging a shift in perspective from worry and overwhelm to gratitude and personal growth. By exploring the mind-body connection, micro-dosing strategies for emotional well-being, and

Hey there, it's Michael. Welcome to Whole Again, the show that's here in support of you creating a meaningful life and the person you're becoming. And I'm excited to share a new series with you that will air this summer as America turns 250 years old, which is still pretty young relative to many other countries across this big blue marble that we all share.

The series is called A Perfectly Imperfect Union. In 2022, I rode my bike across America from Astoria, Oregon to the Lincoln Memorial. My wife drove our RV and she had two co-pilots, Jester and Hope, two springer spaniels And when we did it, America was coming out of the pandemic and we were hurting.

Hurting from things that had happened prior to the pandemic, of course, going through what we all went through. And at that time, and this is something I still believe today, is that we were entering an inflection point. An inflection point for us to hopefully pause, breathe, and reflect on who we wish to become as individuals, as communities, and as a country.

As I pedaled across America, I wanted to share America's beauty with others, her natural beauty and the beauty of her people. And I also wanted to share where we were hurting As America turns 250, I believe Kintsugi, which is something we use as a metaphor here at Whole Again, is a perfect metaphor for where we are as a country.

There's so much beauty to celebrate, and we can also acknowledge that parts of us feel broken or are broken, but we can find a way to come back together, just like Kintsugi teaches us. And when we do, we don't try to erase or cover up where we have scars or blemishes. We highlight them in gold, and we celebrate them as symbols of our strength and resilience.

Kintsugi is called the golden repair, and in essence, we can see beauty in something that's perfectly imperfect. During this series, I plan to speak to at least two people in each state and the District of Columbia. So 102 conversations with real folk, as I like to say. We're going to let the celebrities and the big influencers have their day somewhere else.

But here, I want to reach out and talk to real people and listen to their reflections as they think about America turning 250 years old. And my hope is, is that you'll tune in to at least one, if not all 102. Because my theory going into this is that you'll hear different perspectives. Some may be aligned with yours.

Others may not. But my hope is that you hear the goodness in your fellow citizens and realize, as Maya Angelou shared with us, we are more alike, my friends, than we are unalike. We are more alike, my friends, than we are unalike. I've had the privilege of traveling all over the world and all over this country.

And this belief is something that I hold deep inside of me. So yes, I do believe that we are more alike, my friends, than we are unalike. So if you're ready to get to know one of your fellow neighbors, take a healthy breath in and a slow, releasing breath out 

and get to know Bill Jolley.

Bill, my friend, so good to see you. So thanks for joining me here on A Perfectly Imperfect Union. How are you feeling today? 

Life is wonderful and, uh, full of joy. So good seeing you, and thanks for inviting me to do this with you. This is neat. I'm, I'm excited to hear it. Yeah. 

Yeah. This is good. I'm, I'm, I'm really pumped about, uh, what will come out of our conversation.

So for those that don't know you, can you take a minute or so to introduce yourself, and where are you calling in from today? 

Yeah. So I'm Bill Jolley. I go by Jolley. All my friends call me Jolley. I live in a cool little, uh, Texas Hill Country town called Boerne. 

Okay. 

We're, uh, we're outside of San Antonio in the prettiest part of the entire state.

And, uh, yeah, so I like to tell people that I fight cancer by day, obesity and food insecurity by night. 

All right. I like that. 

It's, uh, it, it, it's fun. It, it gives me direction and meaning and purpose and lets me meet, meet some really cool people. I, uh... During the day, I work for a, uh, a, a major pharma company.

We sell amazing treatments for, uh, for folks that, uh, get the bad news that they have cancer. Uh, and the neat... And really so much overlap in my life. So I'm a 14-year leukemia survivor myself. It's called chronic lymphocytic leukemia. And it has really just driven me. And the, the best thing I've take, taken away from having cancer myself is it's, it's taught me How to fix the, the, the, the health epidemics that we have in A- in America.

And so I created a nonprofit called Interrupt Hunger, and, uh, we're trying to make Bernie the healthiest small town in Texas, and, uh, having a lot of fun. Yeah, good stuff. 

I love it. And what I hear in your answer is that because you've gone through your own cancer battle, there is a greater, uh, empathy that you bring 'cause you understand, like, what it's like to be the patient, and you know what those...

You know, and you're inside the system, so you can, you can poke at the system and hopefully turn it around for the better for other people. And, and I love the fact that you're calling me. You live in San Antonio Spurs country. I happen to live in New York Knicks country. And we are proving in real time that two oppo- opposing forces can come together on the same conversation and have a good one.

And still 

get along. 

Isn't that funny? And still get along. 

Hey, thanks for pointing that out. 

Yeah, no problem. My pleasure. So- ... you know, I'm not a huge Knicks fan, although the, the, the reality is, growing up I was a huge Spurs fan. I was a huge George Gervin fan, and I had- Oh, that's funny ... one of his jerseys growing up.

So I was somewhat conflicted in the finals. I was like, "I'm a, I'm a Spurs f- fan from upstate New York, but I live in New York Knick country now," and I, I went along with the crowd. So we'll... But we'll, that's in the past. We move forward. So, so here you, here you are. Let's take the summer. You're at a nice beautiful picnic in that beautiful part of Texas, and your friends and your family and colleagues are around.

And they ask you, "Hey, Bill, what does America mean to you?" How do you respond to that? 

What does America mean to me? That's such a great question. I, I love these questions. So I think in one word, A- America means hope. And I think every generation of Americans, whether your family's been here since the beginning or it l- your family literally just got here, or even if you've...

you're, you're looking at the hope from afar, like, every generation has the opportunity and the drive to make it a little bit better for the next. Um, yeah, and I think it's that optimism, and it... A little bit of the optimism has, has faded. Maybe a lot of the optimism has faded, but I, uh, it, it's absolutely still there everywhere you go.

Um, if you spend enough time with people or you look hard enough for it, uh, you see that hope and optimism shine through everywhere. 

Yeah, I like the fact that you brought up hope 'cause with hope there's actually action. You know, there's a bit of a difference, at least from my perspective, between hope and optimism.

Optimism through my lens is like, you know, things are gonna work out. They'll, they'll be better. Yeah. With hope, we put a little, a little muscle into it, a little step forward, a little action to create, to create the future that we're looking for. So I love the fact that you bring up the whole concept of hope.

Yeah. One of, one of my f- one of my friends is a gentleman farmer out in East Texas. He's in his 70s. He's seen a lot of the world, and he wears a, he wears like a, a ball cap that says apocalyptic optimist. 

I like it. 

No, no matter how bad things may seem, there's, uh... I- if we come together there and, and, and keep hope and, and faith, then it, it'll work out, so.

I think you need to have that as a farmer because if you're planting, if you're planting crops, you, you gotta be hopeful and optimistic- You have... You really do ... that something's going to germinate, so. 

Yeah. 

So Dave, you mentioned, you know, just the sort- the origin story that so many families have with America, like, you know, people have been here before it was a country.

Uh, people have come from distant, uh, lands to immigrate here. Um, other people have come in other ways. So do you know much about your family's American origin story? 

Yeah, so yeah, we've traced it a little bit. Um, back in the early 1800s, came over from Europe to, to Rhode Island. Um, but there's... I- it's kind of cool actually.

Uh, my oldest daughter really loved digging into our, our genealogy, and it- it's amazing. So Jollie, it's J-O-L-L-I-E, the family name actually came from a family of Viking boat builders. Oh, wow. There's a jolly boat that takes like the ocean-going s- uh, fishing ships To shore. The, so this small boat called a yali boat.

And then, you know, they, they managed to go down to, uh, to France and they, they fled religious persecution and, uh, made it over to Ire- Ireland and Scotland and, and there, there was actually some, some, some Jollies that, uh, jumped on a boat when he was like 17 years old as a, uh, surveyor and became one of the founding fathers of Christchurch, New Zealand.

So yeah, there's ... It, it's really neat. There's so much history and so much fascination- 

That's 

very cool ... if you, uh, take the time to dig into your family. 

Yeah. That's awesome. I love that story. So one- 

There was ... Oh, I gotta tell you, there was also- Yeah ... an Alison. There was also an Alison Jolly, maybe one, probably the most famous Jolly ever in 1596 that got burned at the stake for being a witch in Scotland, so.

Oh, 

wow. Oh. 

That's crazy. 

That's cra- That is, that's nuts. Oh, that, that's a rich family history that you got there, Bill. That's pretty awesome. Yeah. 

It's 

good stuff. So, so one story that is in the news it seems like almost every day is the story around AI From it's gonna be the greatest thing ever. It will help us discover new treatments to diseases that we don't necessarily treat all that well.

Uh, other people though are worried about what it will do to jobs, about if it will, like, destroy humanity. So in 2026, as we sit here today, what's your take on AI? 

So I love AI. I'm fascinated by it. It's, uh, becoming like a personal assistant to me. It's learning me, and I'm, I'm learning how to, to use it better and more effectively to make everything, every...

I'm gonna say, like, every aspect of my life better. So I think the overarching statement is AI is absolutely gonna change life as we know it, but it, it doesn't change us. It-- I think AI is gonna amplify who we are. 

Okay. 

So, um, I think, like, kinda going back to my friend, uh, the apocalyptic optimist, um, you could easily see AI taking us down a very dark road.

And I think that is just the motiva- So much more motivation for us today to start being nice to each other. 

Mm. 

Because- 

Tap into, like, what makes us human as a countermeasure- Yeah ... to the technology and the bots. 

That's it, because AI is gonna make it really, really easy for us to help the masses, but it's also gonna democratize knowledge so that, you know, if, if you piss somebody off, it's gonna be really easy for them to, to come back and might be small or might be a really big way.

So freaking be nice to people. All 

right. Yeah. I think we could do a lot more of that. So- 

Yeah ... 

that gets me to the next question. I... As you might know, I use the Japanese art form of Kintsugi as a metaphor for this series, where the pottery breaks- Yeah ... and we repair it, and instead of hiding the repair lines, we dust them with gold, and they become symbols of our strength and resilience.

So as we look at the country, we can see some places where there are some fractures or some, maybe some brokenness. It's messy. If you could choose one area to help us reconnect, to heal, to grow, to connect better- In, maybe not in a perfect way, but in a meaningful, like, first step as we talked about earlier, what, what would you wish to take on?

Yeah. So, uh, I'd heard this term before, but I had to, I had to dive into it again. And, and I, and I love that, that you're, you've kinda latched onto this. So I think we, we've kinda touched on a little bit, but I think America feels angry right now. 

Ah. 

We're, we're really, really angry, uh, with a lot of things, and we've taken sides.

Um, I think underneath anger is fear, and I, I think underneath a lot of that fear is, is distance from each other. So if we're going to take away that anger, take away that fear, again, it, uh, it, it starts with relationship. And, uh, I'll, I'll tell you, I came from a family when I was really young, I was in the Marines and growing up in Texas and, um, I had my firm belief in the world.

And, uh, I, I, I looked down on certain classes of people. And, uh, through my time in the Marines and my wife and three girls, uh, you know, thankfully, I don't, I don't feel that way anymore. And I realize back in mid-'90s, I'm 54 now, back in the mid-'90s, like, there was just certain people that were really angry, and, and it caused me to start, like, just stop and kind of figure out where I am now.

And, um- Sure. Yeah, that's 

good growth ... 

life, life is so much better now. 

Yeah. 

So much better. 

Yeah. It's, it's, uh, it's important to surround yourself with people that can perhaps offer different perspectives. And I'm sure through the mili- your military service, and thanks for serving, you also had travel, right?

And so travel, when we get out of our own, like, hometown, we get to see things through travel and see different perspectives, and that shapes our thinking as well. So, uh, yeah. 

Takes away, takes away a lot of the fear and- 

Yeah ... a 

lot of the anger. Yeah, 

it does. Absolutely. Like, you know- Very true ... we're all, we're all just humans trying to figure, figure it all out as we go forward through space- Yeah

you know, on this big blue marble that we all share. So when it comes to birthdays, now this is gonna be an interesting question for you because of what you do at night. So usually, though, on birthdays, we have cake So what kind of cake are you serving up for America's 250th? And with a cake, we usually blow out candles, big birthday wish.

So a two-part to this question. What are you wishing for for America as you blow out the candles? 

So yeah, I, I wish that we would take better care of ourselves, better care of each other, and better care of this beautiful planet that we live on. 

That's a great wish. And how do you feel about the whole concept of cake?

Where do you land on that? So if you're not a cake fan, that's totally cool. I've learned through this series that not everyone is a fan of cake on their birthday, so. 

This is funny. 

Yeah. This is 

funny. 

So where do you- So I'm not a- ... where do you stand? 

I'm not a huge cake fan. 

Sure. 

But, um, if there was something with like, like a chocolate cake with ganache on top and like raspberry filling, that sounds pretty fantastic.

That does sound pretty good. Yeah. 

And 

maybe a moment where it's everything in moderation. 

Of course. Yes. 

Yes. We don't eat the whole cake, so yeah. All right, so we'll finish up here. So the last person I chatted with was Demetria from Florida, but originally from Louisiana, and she bopped around into Texas and then Georgia, but she's been in Florida for the last 19 years.

Her question is, "Where in life are you intentionally choosing joy?" 

Oh, this is such an easy softball question for me. So I s- I actually sign my emails off with keep spreading joy. 

Yeah. That's awesome. I love it. 

Inspire. Like that's, you know, the color insights thing. There's red- Yes ... blue, green. Yes. Yeah. So, so I'm a yellow.

I lead with positivity and inspiring others, so I am a k- I'm kinda built to choose joy, and, um, yeah, do what I can to, to make the world a little bit brighter for others. But it's not, that's not enough. Like, it's not enough to be A, a, a, um, kind of a shining light on your own, right? Yeah. It's, it's, it's what kind of ripple do, do you make with that?

Absolutely. And that's- Yeah ... that's, that's my mission in life. Yeah, so great question. Thanks for that. 

And, uh, and what ki- and what kind of, uh, Peloton, I know you'll get this reference as an endurance athlete, but what kind of Peloton do you create with that ripple effect? You know, to bring others along with you because we're not, we're not doing this thing called life by ourselves.

It takes, it takes a squad, it takes a team, it takes a Peloton, it takes a village. 

I love that. Yeah, that's good stuff right there. Yep. 

So what question do you have for the next person I chat with in our series? 

Yeah, so how about, um, this has kind of been an ongoing theme here. Like, what are you doing to make, what are you doing to make life better for somebody else?

Ah. Like it. 

That could be your family, your neighbors, you know. 

Could be anyone. 

Whatever. Yeah. 

Yeah. Yeah. I love it. Well, I will definitely ask that question to the next neighbor I chat with in our series here. Bill, thanks so much for the ripple effect that you're putting into the world and helping us create a more perfectly imperfect union.

And I appreciate you, brother. Keep pedaling. 

You bet. This has been so good talking with you, and, uh, I, I love that you're doing this. I can't wait to listen to all these. 

Very cool. Awesome. Be well. Peace. 

Thanks.

I love Bill's energy and the fact that he's into joy. As the T-shirt says, "Choose joy." I also appreciate his question. It wasn't a surprising one, if I'm honest, given the fact that he does so much to help others create a better tomorrow, even in his spare time. But I do think one quality of a good leader is making things better for those around them.

So how would you answer Bill's question? What are you currently doing to make someone else's life better? You can share your answer or really anything else that resonated from what Bill shared as America has now turned 250 years old. You can simply put your response in the comment section below. And I hope you'll listen in to the rest of the series as we march towards Election Day here in the States, and you'll check out episodes of Whole Again and share one or two of them with someone you know.

But until then, let's remember to celebrate our scars as golden symbols of our strength and resilience. And don't forget to have fun storming the castle.

And if you wish to learn more about creating beautiful ripples and how to prevent a bad moment from turning into a bad day, please visit my website, michaelobrienshift.com, and sign up for my newsletter called The Ripple Effect. And join us each Monday, Wednesday, and Friday here at Whole Again, and discover how you can heal, grow, and become more resilient, and celebrate our scars as golden symbols of strength and resilience.

Until then, remember, you can always come back to your breath. You've got this, and we've got you.